ALPHARETTA 2 RECAP
Samba in the Rain
Wednesday night in Georgia, Phish played like a nostalgia act—a band older than its years, still possessing sharp technical skills but almost utterly disinterested creatively. Like a great boxer who tours the country knocking out pretenders in exhibition bouts, or a veteran stage actor who spends 15 years playing the same part in a hit show, Phish this night seemed to be a band with great powers that was fully satisfied with pleasant mediocrity.
After fans gritted out a 50-minute mid-first-set delay due to an extreme storm, the band rewarded them with a string of greatest hits, each version essentially interchangeable with any other recent version. If not for a stellar version of "Timber" in which Trey totally raged, the most interesting part of tonight's first set was when Trey started talking over "Mound" to inform the crowd of the impending weather delay. It was spontaneous, it was unexpected, it was different. it was interesting.
A close reading reveals exceptions—a particularly raucous Page solo in "Suzy Greenberg," during a tour when each and every "Suzy" features a raucous solo; a "Tweezer" that jumped right into a murky jam before taking the first available exit in favor of a tossed-off "Julius"; a "David Bowie" with some nice, dark interplay between Trey and Mike before jarringly skipping ahead to the closing crescendo; a "Gotta Jibboo" with a particularly fiery, if short, Trey solo--but this is cold comfort to fans who got into Phish because of the sense of wild improvisational abandon with which it frequently played in 1993 through 2000, plus 2003 and 2004. Sure, perhaps it's unfair to take this one ten-year period of the band's work and consider that the norm. But at the time it sure felt like everything was gradually building, improving, getting more exciting and more important. For fans who go further back, who were first hooked by the tight execution of complicated, prog-rock inspired compositions, or the wacky sense of anti-showbiz humor, post-Breakup Phish might go down a lot easier. I wonder if the members of Phish 3.0 would enjoy listening to Phish from 1993 through 2004.
Taken completely in isolation and out of context, it's nice to hear the band Phish play songs like "Foam," and the others mentioned in this recap. If you haven't heard this show yet, it would probably serve as capable background music for a long drive. It's got a lot of great songs in it, and it doesn't require much work on the part of the listener. If your mind drifts for a few minutes, you won't really miss anything that you needed to hear. If it's all I had to introduce the band to someone living on the Moon, I'd be fine with that. If it's all I had to listen to on a desert island, I'd have fun with it. If it was the only evidence of this band in existence, it would make a strong case for a group of four musicians with excellent chops, strong, eclectic material, and great energy. They're really good.
But these shows do not happen in isolation and out of context. In fact, Phish has made every show they've played since 2003 available for instant purchase. Before that, they encouraged fans to collect live tapes and go to multiple shows and have made much of the intensely special band/audience relationship that grew out of that special set of circumstances. It granted them a level of freedom (artistically and economically) that is rarely achieved in this business. They are not a typical band. And so we have choices. It's completely appropriate to compare tonight against previous Phish shows, rather than against, say, some random hipster band or Britney Spears. And given the choice of other Phish shows to listen to, there's almost nothing here you need to seek out in order to continue to have a fully up-to-date and informed view on contemporary Phish.
Thankfully, a show like tonight is frustrating precisely because we know the band can deliver something much fresher than the stuff of 6/15/11. If I had written the recap for several shows earlier this tour, they would have been raves. I just happen to have been on tap for the recap the night of an uninspiring show. Perhaps the rest of this tour will be outstanding. By 3.0 standards, this tour has been particularly free with its periodic glimpses of improvisational gumption—Bethel2 with its "Haley's," "Runaway Jim" and "Bathtub Gin"; the Blossom "Sneakin' Sally," the Clarkston "Down With Disease," even the Great Woods "Rock and Roll." It's been a very encouraging tour. They're getting it done with improvisational muscle, rather than pre-arranged wacky bustouts. I can't wait for Tahoe.
What makes a night like this so frustrating is that they're still so good. Page, who sounded completely uninterested at times during 3.0, is possibly at the peak of his career. MIke seems game for anything. Trey's chops are at their highest point in years. And they all seem lively, healthy, having fun and into it. I think they're accomplishing what they want to accomplish, and walked offstage tonight feeling they nailed it.
It's not that they can't do it. It's just that, far too often, they don't seem to want to. Of course, the "it" in this case is just what I, and many other fans, want—which is, in short, an advancement beyond what the band had accomplished circa, say, 1992. When you capably re-create something you've been doing for 30 years, with no attempt at advancement, that is the definition of nostalgia. It's not what Phish does every night. But it's what they do plenty of nights. Like tonight.
Of course the "Birdwatcher" -> "Kung" was awesome. It was funny and lively and in-the-moment and unpredictable and Phishy. It was probably the best thing all night.
Is that enough?
Not for me. Your mileage may vary. And Phish's does as well.
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Phish.net
The Mockingbird Foundation
I think that is fantastic! Congrats to your son for his first show, and thanks for your very thoughtful reply.
Having the live stream has been illuminating. It's easier to realize that it is not always Trey's fault when a jam sequence is not realized. The look on Mike's face a few times that last couple of nights has been one of utter confusion and WTF are we doing here? Maybe, despite the "premature endjamulations", it was actually Trey rescuing the band from embarrassing themselves further.
In any event, the last couple of nights have been bittersweet to listen to. Technology seems poised to march on into the future while the band seems willing to stagnate in the past. I was very excited early in the tour with some incredible, legendary, and timeless Phish, but the last few shows have not given me that feeling at all. Maybe the band needs to sequester themselves and do their old exercises of the hey-hole and other listening exercises, because clearly they are not listening to each other now.
As zany & fun as the Birdwatcher -> Kung was, I thought it was completely embarrassing- forgotten words, missed pitch, overall "who gives a fuck" attitude. No damn surprise they take the stage for the encore and "play something we know". I'm all for taking risks and failing, but that's not what that was. That was just failing- period.
With still a bunch of shows that are on my radar to attend, the decision to stay home is becoming easier and easier.
And the silver lining to the cloud: Yes, the Timber was extraordinary.
I was definitely surprised that utter experimental debauchery didn't ensue after the lightning storm. First time getting a Mound at a gig was great and then the Tweezer got off to a great start but didn't get dirty before an abrupt turn into Julius. From there on it was greatest hits-ville—any one of which could have been fertile ground for some raunchy/filthy improvisation but alas remained in the box(es). Page's Suzy solo was a bright note.
As for the Birdwatcher...the fuck-ups and everything didn't bother me...The song is a joke in the first place so sometimes it's even funnier if the joke is botched. Good call taking it into Kung.
Trey's solo in Funky Bitch was impressive. Reprise was reprise. Show over...An overall observation is (playing off the above review) that despite amazing chops across the board, the communication and spontaneity was a bit spotty tonight...(again save for Timber...MORE of this please.)
Although I have a feeling that Trey may see it the same way you do, this band is playing entirely too locked in for Trey to be rushing to save every jam just because of temporary miscommunication. Hell, this band built their entire career on being able to push past a small hiccup & turn jams into something transcendant. Not only that, but for every jam where someone else seems lost, there's another one where the band comes out firing on all cylinders yet Trey still feels the need to fire up a "Twist" or "Piper" overtop of a groove in such a rush that he doesn't bother to mold it to the surrounding music melodically or rhythmically.
Truly perplexing. Considering how much ground they can cover within a few short minutes of improv lately, it baffles me that Trey is in such a rush to get out of these improvsational segments. The only set of the last week that really brought some hope to my heart was the 2nd set of MPP II. Not much changed from an improvsational standpoint, but at least the band put together a cohesive set of music without depending on the same dozen standby 'greatest hits'. A show like Bethel (I,II) shows just how much that Phish can do with short jamlets that bridge one song to the next- it's a shame that they aren't exploring that avenue more. They might not want to jam for extended periods of time, but I can't quite comprehend the purpose behind jamming for 2.5 measures and then 1 member starting up the next song completely untethered to the music.
The "Trey Ripcord" just seems totally at odd with the mastery that they're displaying with the rest of their music these days. Trey's playing striking a perfect balance between orgasmic release & fluidly lyrical minimalism, Mike unleashing endless torrents of interesting melodic counterpoint, Fishman and Page playing with more aggression than they've displayed since 1995. I think we'll see the improv become more and more prominent as they continue to round into the home stretch of their career- they're simply playing with too much passion to stay content banging out near-identical versions night after night. They'll eventually bring their newfound precision into the deep end of the pool and start reeling off a string of Nassau Tweezer-esque jams that effortlessly move from one thematic movement to the next. The future looms in my dreams.
stick to reviews of the music and song style, not what you think the band is feeling.
I would lay odds all 4 of them went back stage and agreed on the greatest hits finale. I'm surprised birdwatcher kung was even played at that point and would be very interested to see the original setlist.
I would also say for any first time concert goer it was a great experience despite the onslaught from mum nature.
They didn't "frequently" have improvisational abandon in 93... it happened in like a dozen shows, tops. I defy you to find many interesting jams between the Backyard in Austin (day after the Bomb Factory) and 5/26/94 - a stretch as long as this tour has been. Hell even in 95, I saw 5 shows on the fall tour (the NW run) and the only interesting jams were a slightly different arrangement of Slave in Seattle and a very good Harry Hood in Spokane, but probably not much better than last night. With the exceptions of 97 and 03-04, the big improvisational highlights were always in the exceptional shows, the ones we talked about after the tour, not something to expect night after night after night. It's just that no one listens to 6/13/94 or 11/23/96 or 10/5/95 so we forget that they exist.
but as for "It's not that they can't do it. It's just that, far too often, they don't seem to want to.", I think that is completely incorrect. I just read zzyzx's post, and I absolutely agree, the incredibly inspired jams are not "the norm". I'm sure the band, as much as the phans, are ALWAYS in search of THE JAM; but if it's not present, it will not be manifest; wanting to or trying to certainly isn't enough to make it happen. In fact, trying to make it happen is usually disasterous. And perhaps with all the drama of Mother Nature last night, no one was able to really hone in on the potential jams that were perhaps present.
Speculating on what is happening "behind the scenes" is silly at best and stupid at worst, but the up-close look provided by the stream suggests that what we have here is a failure to communicate. As others have noted, everyone seems to be playing well... on paper, in isolation. Phish shows don't take place in your TV in isolation; they take place between four guys on stage, a process that works when listening and in-moment interaction propel them to a higher plane. They are currently just not hooking up beyond "we can do this in our sleep" stock selections from the jukebox.
Panic button time? Absolutely not. Whatever it is that is "off" seems very slight, clearly reparable, and there is no reason to believe that they won't turn things around as early as Friday in Charlotte. The underlying components for great shows are available for use when the motivation is there.
This all comes from a place of genuine love and appreciation for what these guys have provided us for decades, but last night was straight-up, by-the-numbers nostalgia act. Maybe that is enough for some fans, and it would probably be enough for me to go to see them two or three times a year, indefinitely. Must-see TV? Hop in the car and make a last-minute distant weekday show, or fork over big bucks to haul across the country, compelling drama? Not currently. Let's hope the weekend shows break out of this mold. Gotta love The Phish From Vermont and everybody has an off-day, they just happened to pick one in a high-exposure slot. No worries, get 'em next time.
seems uninterested in pushing boundaries there at all. They are playing better technically than they have since '99 right now imo but the ripcord makes me extremely uninterested in listening to this show again.
Wouldn't you agree the salient point here is that you are, in fact, quite easy to please when it comes to Phish? You mentioned elsewhere that the end of the set--presumably Birdwatcher-> Kung--saved the show for you because you like silly Phish. Isn't it from that place that you fashion this argument?
So yes, I am somewhat easy to please when it comes to Phish, although I should say that, "saved" was meant in the sense that it would have been something fun to remember, something worth waiting in the rain for, not as in, "Let's run to LivePhish and download it and listen to it again and again." I like the silly stuff, I like the subtle improv they've been doing, I like a well played Slave or Divided Sky, I like a hot Type I jam. If I didn't, I would have given up on this band well before 1997 rolled around.
I thought Set I up to the weather break was outstanding, as good as any so far this tour, better than many. I thought the Jim was as interesting as Bethel's, or almost so. The Timber (Jerry) was really very strong (as you note). The other songs in the set were as tight as you could want and flowed together as a set of music quite nicely.
The return set of "greatest hits" probably does deserve some of the stick it's getting. But I'm not hearing anyone saying "x" really killed the energy, one of the top complaints about second sets heretofore. That can't be an accident. There was definitely a conscious decision to keep a high energy level after the storm break. That affected the songs called, clearly. I don't think it was a bad decision. You call these songs interchangeable -- I disagree. Julius, far from feeling "tossed-off," easily beats the others we've gotten recently. It absolutely smoked. I think you've underrated the Bowie as well.
The main beef seems to be with the relative absence of experimentation, outside jamming, Type II. And that's where you've got a point. There wasn't a whole lot of that in evidence last night. The question is, can there be an above-average Phish show without it? I think that there can be and I think this show brought it. My only complaints about this show are the mis-steps in the end of Suzy and in the a cappella numbers, both of which problems I thought were mitigated by other factors: the fact that Page killed Suzy outright (Fish knew!) and that the Birdwatcher/Kung was sidesplitting.
I had thought before this morning that Camden would go down as the underrated show of the tour. Now I know it's Alpharetta 2.
No way. Just in the last show I saw - Mansfield, not exactly considered the best of the tour, the Divided Sky, the Rock and Roll jam (it would have freaked me out to hear Phish playing the VU in 1994, so it would have had to come out of another song obviously), or the high energy banteriffic Suzie would have been considered the highlight of 6/13/94.
Maybe I should listen to it again. What would be your highlight of the show? The Slave?
The one positive thing I came away with from the webcast is that Trey and Page seem to be very connected with each other, getting along well, and having fun. Page is the loosest guy up there by a long shot, and clearly glad to be playing Phish music with Phish and with Trey. So that's something.
Mike and Fish, I dunno. The only time those two seem to interact is when Trey calls a tune and Mike relays the call to Fish. Otherwise they appear to be in some sort of bubble. Maybe the four of them need to go do a ropes course, or jump out of an airplane or something, to remind them that their job is to co-create moments. Not sure that ethos is at work of late.
@David:
I don't even know where to begin. This is the last thing I'd expect from someone with an encyclopedic knowledge of the band's oeuvre. First off, some of the best (full band) improvisational moments for this band happened in 1991 and 1992 (cf. the David Bowie or AC/DC Bag from 2-15-91, the Weekapaug from 4-16-92). By full band I mean all four guys acting as one cohesive unit, taking a song to a place where it either wasn't "supposed" to go or hadn't gone before. And by 1993, you could find moments of it in almost every show. I spent several weeks pouring through overlooked shows (zero reviews in any of the databases/literature) and in EVERY SHOW I found at least one or two moments of startling improvisation.
For example, the show played on 03-21-1993, in Ventura. Very standard sets by anyone's definition, until they get to Hood. This Hood (like so many other versions of so many other songs, I've already had this conversation with Charlie and Philip) doesn't contain any show notes, but upon listening I found myself knee-deep in what I thought was a Yo La Tengo or Kevin Shields' record. It's terrific stuff.
The Divided Sky is acutely brilliant as well
1994 and 1995 are exactly the same way. Every other show (and for whole month long stretches, every single show) contains something of original and pure value (music that did not exist before). And yes, we all know that's what has made this band so very relevant for such a long time, this idea of collective improvisation, the danger of failure, the foiling of expectation that makes the amygdala do backflips in our heads.
I think what even more critical minds like Jeremy's are overlooking (or perhaps ignoring) is the fact that this band has never before declined (a steady loss of power, prowess or ability). If there were periods of stagnancy, you could bet on a convulsive and cathartic seismic shift in tone/attitude/influence that would result in a new direction, an invigorated music.
What we're seeing now is a decline, pure and simple, and it's not fun to watch.
I'd be thrilled to eat those words, and very much look forward to doing so. As noted earlier, they aren't off by a lot, but the rock is currently stationary. Gotta love The Phish, but love requires honesty.
Who is really knee-deep in nostalgia here? The band (who..God knows what is going through their minds during each show, despite those who think they can tell), or the person who wants them to return to a previous era and play exactly the way they were doing then? This review is full of so many contradictions I don't know what to make of it. They are great. They are killing it. All four are freakin' ON!! I would enjoy this show if it was all I had to listen to on a desert island! But screw those guys they aren't even trying. They don't even WANT to get as intense as they were during MY hey-day.
When I first started seeing Phish, I sure felt like "everything was gradually building, improving, getting more exciting and more important." Hell yeah I did. And do I feel less so now? Yep. That was in '03; and I can only imagine that it is exponentially more so for someone who has been seeing them for over 10 years longer than myself.
But seriously, there have been so many spot-on jams this tour alone that it's a little hasty to call them a nostalgia act after they have a mediocre show during a rain-delayed fiasco where all kinds of things are throwing them out of whack.
And Philip, for whatever reason, it's really good to hear another old-timer (ha!) share the same sentiments.
Again, my issues with this summer are not the repeats. Nobody who was around in 93 would say that. Remember when set II was either Tweezer YEM or Mike's Groove? And it's not the length of jams.
To be fair, it's been a long, long time since Phish has jammed on a blank slate. Even through the early-mid 90s, they (and Trey in particular) seemed to have a lot of stock themes that they used modular-style to build a particular jam. There was little that you'd never heard before, but it was very possible that you hadn't heard this particular way of building up Reba (for example). That element of creativity and originality seems to be gone.
Too long / didn't read version: If I'm honest with myself, maybe my difference of opinion is that I'm not okay with hearing the same "type I" rock-peak jam over and over again.
Shame on you.
Also, 6/14/94 is absolutely sick. Trey is a musical menace in that Stash. Reba and Slave are a couple of best-ever versions too.
All this trivial criticism (they don't read the boards) gets even trickier when you start to bring up revenue, earnings, net worth, etc.
Let's not forget for a hot minute that these guys are paid to do a job, albeit perhaps the greatest job in the history of mankind (playing music). But a job is a job. And when you cease to be able to do it well, you either stop earning as much money or your superiors find a "better" place for you. Fortunately for Phish (unfortunately for fans), they have no superiors and seem to be generating as much revenue as in any recent year.
Why am I still on phish.net, if I feel this way? Because the band was that important to me back in the day. And they're still enjoyable in a different sort of way. Don't get me wrong, I have no intention of missing the Summer '11 phish concert.
They are a great band but they are not concerned with getting any better right now. Oh, and after this tour instead of "be back in 15 minutes", it will be I'll see you in 12 months.
Maybe the stoppage gave some a buzzkill....for me, an unbelievable experience to come back to mound - Screaming "Could he find some SHELTER!!!!!!". SO perfect. I'm sorry, but I may not get to see these guys like I used to in 93-98. I have a family and a job. I love that about the Phish experience at every show. Its a family to them and us. Tonights show was epic. Period.
I'm just finishing the second set on my ipod. A show that I dnld this morning from lp before I left for the airport. Could I have done that in 94? So, as I finish this comment in ATLANTA airport typing on my phone wating for my flight, I leave you with this.... Enjoy that we have this. For this thing we have here in Grand, yes Grand. Thank you Phish for everything you have given us, and me personally since 4.10.93.
// signing off ATL > ORD
None of those things are accurate.
last fall was so great... now you're just reverting to something far worse than summer 09... dont let yourselves fade away in mediocrity... bring it like fall2010 x10.
I think this is healthy discussion, no haters are we.
And are Canucks fans no longer worthy of fandom if they question Luongo's goal tending or speak publicly of the cheap-shots, finger biting, acting, or other mis-cues in the series? Hell no. It makes them MORE of fan. And they'll be back next season wanting the Cup even stronger.
Pet peeves of mine, and you've pretty much hit all of them:
> Calling the band "the boys"
> Questioning fandom by publicly speaking opinion
> Saying "a bad Phish show is better than any other band's best night" (just trite and not true)
> Saying we should just be happy Phish is back, some Phish is better than no Phish (yeah, that's also trite and boring)
However, all that being said, I certainly have my fingers crossed that you will be able to report back from Charlotte, Raleigh and Portsmouth and "refute all the haters". Certainly I think there's a great chance that will happen.
Just do us all a favor and don't fall into the trap of my final pet-peeve:
> Over rating shows you were at and failing to believe and being incredulous that anyone not at the show could have the audacity to review it
I've been witnessing and tracking the band's overall decline since Coventry. Seeing Trey up on the big screen (thankfully didn't attend), closeups of his hands, playing Curtain in the wrong key...it was really too much. Yes, things have gotten better, much better in fact. But pointing to Trey's marginal improvements in dexterity or speed belie the elephant (multibeast?) in the room.
And please stop pointing to songs like Bethel's Runaway Jim as evidence of progress or improvement. The cool tribal thing during the breakdown is soiled and eclipsed by Trey's incoherence and sour notes in the culminating jam.
I don't want to insult anybody either but as an active musician, I wouldn't be comfortable charging people to see me play if I was unable to perform adequately.
It seems like a lot of folks are just chasing an epic show they can rest their laurels on. People are looking for a two song set full of reckless abandon or the best of version of a tune. The problem with that is that we can get distracted from one simple reality: that Phish is a kick-ass rock & roll band, plain and simple and they come on stage every night to entertain us.
Also, this was brought up here but I want to emphasize it, saying that Phish Is becoming a nostalgic act now and they should go back to what they were doing is just weird. So they are a nostalgia act and what would make that different would be to go back to the good ol’ days!??!?! That doesn’t even make any sense.
I have heard a lot lately as well that “I already saw this show this tour” or “glad I missed this show because they just played it a few nights ago”. I don’t get this. Sure they have repeated songs, as they ALWAYS have, but that said there is still never an identical version and look at the setlists from this tour and find me a mirror copy. Phish is not in the business these days of creating a vast catalogue of unique live shows for posterity, they are on stage entertaining an audience. Have we (we being the collective Phan) become so jaded that we can’t appreciate going out catching some show and have a good time dancing with good friends? If so than we as an audience have lost our way.
Sure it’s great to be critical of something we all love but we have put the boys on such a high pedestal that we (again, the collective we) are just setting ourselves up to be disappointed. Lets not forget Phish is a rock & roll band and we are a glorified fan club.
I just finished listening to this show and I thought it was good. Not great and mind blowing but good. I wish I could have attended.
personally i think most of the people being critical of the band are being very polite and genuinely having a discussion about what is clearly a very weak tour.
you sound pretty angry yourself. there is no need to be offended.
do you honestly think that this tour is even close to the level of performance we saw in fall/nye 2010? i really thought last fall that stuff was starting to get really good...
Once upon a time, the audience was just as important to the band, if not more.
@bmorris0420Whatever
I got nothin'.
That statement is objectively false. Many, many songs from this tour are virtual carbon copies of other versions. Which isn't a a criticism, per se; it is, rather, descriptive. You can have different opinions about that but to suggest that there is "never an identical version" represents... denial?
What makes you think the people commenting on this thread (again, a very healthy, adult, thoughtful discussion... well, except for @standingonthemoon who is straight-up moron) "can't appreciate going out catching some show and have a good time dancing with good friends?" I personally know a lot of these folks; hear me now and believe me later, we do precisely that, all the time. There is no disconnect between enjoying the moment and thinking about those moments in a contextual light after the fact.
Cheers.
It's just not the case. Honest evaluation and excellence go hand in hand.
.
You are entirely correct about Phish being only a rock and roll band. We however are not a "glorified fan club", merely a fan club. (Yes, I have a problem with an adult being a member of a rock and roll band fan club too, but since the band in question are 40 somethings too, I'm getting over it).
Yes, an "average typically great Phish show" at which we danced, were entertained, shared with friends, had a good maybe great time, as distinct from someone penning a critical (in the good sense) "review" where someone chooses to focus solely on the musical aspects of the performance, and compare it with some 1,500 other versions of performances stretching back over 20 years, all of which are accessible for taped replay at the click of a mouse.
I enjoyed and totally concur in J_D_G's reviews and many of the site team comments on this thread.
Well I think im just saying that given the nature of a live performace there is ALWAYS something different, it might be minor and insignificant but it is NEVER the absolute same. It would be borderline impossible to have a "virtual carbon copy", a flub here, an interesting run by Trey there, a "Mike bomb" spinkled in. Denial certainly not, a minor moot point maybe, but denial no. It's just the nature of playing rock & roll.
Second: (def) A pet peeve (or pet hate) is a minor annoyance that an individual identifies as particularly annoying to him or her, to a greater degree than others may find it. I wasn't asking you to stop using the term or clear it with me.
Third: I'm not shitting all over the boys either.
Fourth: Bunch of retarded fuckin trustafarians? Not sure where that came from. I have to budget my Phish travel & expenses like everyone else and need every paycheck I get.
Sorry I hit a raw nerve in your personal life that warranted such a vicious attack. I still hope you get your great shows. And if you don't keep your anger & venom in check, I can pretty much guarantee you that I'd prefer not to bump into you at a show either.
Michigan came so close. It was for one day (at least in my mind) the moment we could point to and say THIS is where things changed. But in the time since, the change hasn't been realized. Yet.
Speaking of that, Tuesday was Flag Day and after an amazingly open and free jamming Light up Or Leave Me Alone which could only be the byproduct of an outpouring to America and pride in the flag that represents our freedoms, I thought the second set really did a disservice to America. And that flag.
My country 'tis of thee, sweet land of liberty. Of thee I sing.....
Most of the people here saying the band is going downhill have been attending shows for a long time, and are undoubtedly comparing the past to the present. How can they not? That's the body of work they have to compare shows based on.
It doesn't make you any less of a phan being critical of the band you are spending a lot of $ and time seeing. Also your comment about trustafarians is really sad. I'm self made and not going to apologize for having financial success and no one else should have to apologize for success either unless they use unsavory means to get there.
You stated: "Just because I have a different opinion and refuse to shit all over THE BOYS, I'm an idiot." Different opinion than whom? Who has 'shit all over the boys'? @J_D_G's review? @tmwsiy? No one on this thread and certainly not Jeremy's review did anything of the sort. You are presenting a straw man argument.
If you reread the review Jeremy did not argue in any way that going to a show was any less fun than it ever used to be. He is speaking specifically of the music. And there is value in that - completely separating the music from the live experience for the sake of critical evaluation.
Finally, you are calling others on this thread angry and yet you are the only one who has chosen to use your CAPS LOCK KEY. (And Jerry's birthday is August 1st, not August 9th)
However, what i got was somewhat lacking. Don't get me wrong, I had a great time. I enjoyed every song played. Unfortunately, a lot of people on this thread are right. There was something missing. Its hard to say exactly what it was, and attempting to describe it is foolish IMHO. What i think will ultimately be said about this show is that it was more of a missed opportunity than anything else. The songs were crushed, every member played well, and the energy was never dropped. Basically, I think they had two choices. Give us an epic Type II onslaught or give us fire and energy that never dropped below a steady simmer. Unfortunately for those who love Type II goodness, they chose the latter. Fortunately for those who love Type I shredding, they didn't choose the former. My loyalties lie somewhere in between the two, maybe Type I.65.
In the end, this is one show. Its good, not legendary. And i think that's the problem many have. It was such a perfect opportunity for a legendary performance, but it just never materialized.
As for the comments about Phish being a "nostalgia act" I have to somewhat agree and also say that if you really want to light a fire under the band, call them that a few more times. They do not want and never will want to be thought of as a "nostalgia act." As I head to Charlotte and Raleigh the next few days, here's to hoping the boys heard that line loud and clear. If they realize that this might be what is happening to them, maybe they will blow our faces off soon.
Well I'm glad to see he is well liked, fair and reasonable. If you will read above, I apologized for the miscommunication but whatever. Man I really hit a nerve with you tweezer, I like it! What's your issue with the phrase "come at"? You really have an impressive digital life...I bet your Mom's basement is awesome.
You nailed it dude! I live in my Mom's basement, I have a trust fund that you wouldn't believe, and she even laid out my clothes for me this morning. She actually drives me to shows and waits with the limos to drive me home afterwards. She's quite a woman!
Also, barging in to a civil, intelligent, adult discussion with CAPS LOCK ablaze and vitriol in the heart is unlikely to be of assistance in getting any of your so-called "points" across.
$0.02.
what happened to the discussion we were having about the state of phish?
ill say it again...
i think this tour is leagues behind the level of performance seen in fall 2010. which upsets me cause i really thought last fall was the beginning of a serious rebirth of the kind of phish we all came to love in the past. last fall was still a bit timid but the type IIs were starting to come back in bowie, antelope, reba, stash... that was a great sign... there has been virtually none of that this tour, just standard trey solos... which i like, but we need some variety.
Does anyone remember the Jon Pareles-penned piece in the New York Times, published during the same week of the reunion shows?
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/05/arts/music/05phish.html
It was this article and interview more than anything else that led to a severe case of the drainbows. It's not that I want a flag to wave, or one show to hold up to the canon as fodder for "Greatest Evah!"
I just want them to live up to these words:
"Late last year the four band members came together, by themselves, to make music in Mr. Anastasio’s Burlington barn and studio. They liked what they heard. And they resolved to be the version of Phish they prized most: the intently practiced, well-prepared Phish from the mid-90s."
"Always argue like you're right, but listen like you're wrong...wisdom is developing strong opinions that are weakly held"
This review is very well written and spot on in its analysis. What's off is the conclusion that the band is now a nostalgia act, etc. Most bloggers/reviewers are way too swept away by the short term. If last night is what an "off" night is like these days, then all is well in phish world.
A small word on the tour, I felt this tour has been wonderful. They have been playing a lot of fresh feeling sets even the occasional older feeling set, I know they have the heavy staples in there, but it seems like every night they try to at least do a few things they have not even touched on the tour and that is refreshing, after the last few tours where it felt like they only picked 40 songs to play the whole run.. There has not been a lot of heavy jams, they do get lost in the big setlist's,but in a way they are that much more enjoyable when they do happen, at least for the moment that is. I don't know maybe I am just trying to not be jaded in my old age ha , I have been to way too many bad shows like The Jones Beach Closer last summer. Flat setlist, flat show, way over hyped.. So I know these shows happen and sometimes it is where people expect the craziest show, But it seems to me like everyone is being way too harsh.. Just love you some Phish, I can be a hater too. but ripping the whole tour apart. There is no band that has not played a bad show. It happens. And there is no year phish has not played at least a few shows that were not so amazing. So lets suck it up like we always do, and get back out there and give the band the energy they need to be taken where we want them to go... I think that makes the most sense.. Lets all show up to Super Ball 9 ready to rage on a new level and get what we want from them.. I'm ready ...
They took the time to make a sign for a practice room.
How about we come up with a final verdict when the tour ends?
Ease up people. Phish has been doing this for a quarter century. How many of you enter a job with gusto and after a couple years you just don't have that fire to do the work anymore. Don't you think that even rock stars like Phish experience that when they drop into YEM for the millionth time? The fact that the band can be doing this for so long and be on tour and get rained out, only to come back and close with a Nuclear Fire Funky Bitch is a miracle in itself. There was NOTHING nostalgic about it. Maybe you were expecting a 1996 Hood, or a Forbin's-Mockingbird and didn't get it and that clouded your judgment. Give it a second listen.
I had a thread over on the forum titled "Unhappy in Phishland" that was my venting session after Darien. Whenever this band takes risks, it always pays off. They're still capable of going there. And the first few weeks of this tour looked promising that they would "go there" on a consistent basis. Clearly, it was not to be.
And I'm only playing this card because I honestly (and selfishly) believe that this band is saving themselves for Superball IX. I know it sounds silly, but I think that their 10-14 minute jams with new sounds are just experimental sessions for what will become huge jams in Watkins. At least, that's what I'm hoping. With that in mind, these mediocre shows are a lot easier to deal with.
Here's hoping they steer the ship into some uncharted waters
Further it is possible for any single fan to express enthusiasm and praise on a particular show – as noted, I loved large segments of Bethel1, Bethel2, Pine Knob and Blossom, and the Gin > Light up from Tuesday was blistering, among other tour highlights – yet still view the tour as a whole as a) a downgrade on their overall level of play from as recently as last fall and b) filled with far too much air time that is just going through the motions.
As to the "nostalgia act" – that I recognize is a bit of a polarizing hot-botton phrase, given it is what Trey said in his infamous "Letter from Trey" that they never wanted to become – I'm not hearing folks flat out say "Phish is a nostalgia act." It would be incorrect, but I don't hear anyone saying that. JDG, the OP here, said "Wednesday night in Georgia, Phish played like a nostalgia act." He was referencing one show... and goes on to contextualize among the tour as a whole, but that is a lot different than "Phish IS a nostalgia act." They aren't, but they do display hints of being that, at times.
In any case, few if any of the comments seem to suggest any conclusive finality, and anyone who cares enough to be commenting in a thread like this even at the most "negative" is probably hopeful (if not even confident) that things take a turn toward the more risky and innovative and propel us all into a happy Phish future. I know that is where I'm at... I think the band is simply in a mini-funk. YMMV.
Being out on the lawn for the downpour during Timber was nuts, and watching the entire first set unfold along with the torrent was like nothing ive ever been a part of before. Me and my friends toughed out the storm until the boys packed it up and we hurried into the pavillion. Standing around surrounded by enormous amounts of rain mixed with thunder and lightning on all sides with thousands of other people really was pretty cool. Many minutes (and Braves tomahawk chops) later the lights went out and of course went right back into mound.
I thought the Tweezer kicked ass, though it was brief. Only my second Slave but it was way better than the NYE one. Page shredded Suzy, and Character Zero was pretty hype. Definitely felt a little spoiled to get a Kung, which was hilarious.
Other than that musically there werent really any outstanding highlights, but the occasional heavy winds and random cracks of thunder really made this one special, to me at least. Icculus truly made his presence known last night, that I think we can all agree on.
---
What I haven't seen anyone write is how the band seemed to miss out on a genuinely organic moment that historically has rendered wonderful results. With NYE, Halloween, Red Rocks, Hampton, MSG runs, etc...there is always big expectation (watch out Tahoe be careful what you wish (expect?) for) - the event, the room, the history. It's all laying there leading up to the event...that's hard to separate from when your getting ready to attend. As a result there is always debate as to whether a show delivered and I think it's harder to arrive at a reasoned conclusion on that one.
Here, we had a spontaneous moment that affected everyone present. It was real. It was spontaneous and literally everyone was physically immersed in it at the venue (sideways rain poured into the pav drenching everyone0. Experiences like this have yielded some gems 12/30/93 (snowstorm for the driver from CT to ME), 7/22/97, 7/1/00, 7/14/00 (I was there for this and the weather last night was every bit as nasty and much more prolonged) and Deer Creek 09.
The moment was primed and the band simply did not deliver on the energy. Dropping a mid set Slave was at odds with Phish's history of being on the same wavelength as their phans. The playing in the 2nd set was not inspired by the moment. It just wasn't. The bailed tweezer, and the slave and bowie placement says it all to me. I'm more bothered by the fact that the band missed (I felt like they ignored it) the chance to make organically derived relevant music in the heat of the moment. That's contra to the Phish I know and love.
Have an off night but on a tour like this where there has been inconsistency go backstage and practice for 30 minutes before returning and deliver a gift to your phans who just endured some scary mother nature wrath.
That being said (thanks to Larry David for ruining that phrase), Jeremy had a job to do and that was to share his thoughts on the show. He did so in an intelligent way that led to a lot of insightful comments until bmorris got involved. Unlike sports there aren't clear losses and victories, plus music is incredibly subjective - we all appreciate Phish for different reasons. I also appreciate reading fans' thoughts on the good, the bad and the ugly because just as with 99% of Phish shows, there's always SOMETHING I can take away from someone else's viewpoint.
I don't think Phish is a nostalgia act, but they certainly aren't helping their case by debuting one song over the first six and a half months of 2011. I'm extremely intrigued by the lack of new originals as the band seemed so interested in writing new material over the first few tours since Hampton. While they are playing the Joy songs extensively, what happened to the songs they debuted in 2010? Show of Life has showed up a few times and Halfway to the Moon finally saw action on Sunday, but I'm disappointed What Things Seem, Summer of '89 (awaits flames), My Problem Right There, Burn That Bridge and Idea have yet to be performed this tour. Not a good sign, IMHO.
I think that Trey really might have wanted to play a huge second set, but he seriously fucked it up. And the worst part is that Tuesdays show was INCREDIBLE. I was on the rail page side for that show as well and it was the best time of my life. The band was firing on all cylinders and laying down the THICK funk. IT WAS FREAKIN' AWESOME.
Night two blew...
This idea of "how can you criticize at all," incredulous-ness that someone would have the audacity to criticize Phish's music . . . it just doesn't sit well with me.
Leaves you wanting more! Ira is such an underrated guitarist, imo, and I would love Trey to drop into a a full on freak out a la Pass the Hatchet (although, the bass and drums are better suited for Russ and Tony, lol).
and @LawnBoy0925, ^^^^, I hear ya on the folks who just to go get f'ed up. Always a bummer.
as a counter to the overall tone of the original review and other comments expressing concern, disappointment, and frustration, i offer the following personal (although perhaps shared) opinions with decidedly more positive vibrations:
1) the band is playing as well now as they did in the mid-90's and better than they did in the 00's. discussions of whether they play enough Type II jams for one's pleasure aside, the musicianship and enjoyment on stage by the guys is great to experience. if you left last night complaining that Slave was in the middle of the set rather than smiling uncontrollably about that Timber Ho, you could find more worthwhile ways to spend your money. there are excellent charities that could do wonders with your $45-60.
2) and about that Slave... perfect example of the glass being half full/empty. i have been very pleased with the creative placement of songs in the setlists. Suzy and Slave being in the middle, rather than the ends, of sets? Dinner & a Movie Set 1 Opener?? these ARE examples - however small some may think of them - of creativity being bemoaned. "creativity" is more than just jamming. for that matter, so is Phish.
3) as for the complaint of "greatest hits," i have two simple replies:
a) Set II last night was a reasonable reaction by the band. the storms had battered the audience and it never stopped raining. it was easy to assume we were tired and a little antsy. consistently high energy was the only way the band could keep our mind on the music and off the lightning strikes. so we got high energy Type I jams like we heard in Tweezer> Julius and the Bowie.
b) one person's "nostalgia" is another person's "first time!" my niece got her first Fluffhead the previous night. she was BEAMING when the first notes were played. and yet, when i mentioned it to a friend who's been to more than 180 shows, he did the "meh, Fluffhead" thing that many of yall are doing now with your insightful (yet still pathetic in the "sad, gloomy" sense) critiques of the show. my point is this: one man gathers what another man spills. some decry the lack of Type II jamming and come away "frustrated," while others let the band make the selections and enjoy the moment for what it is. and the consensus is that the songs being played (omitting the catastrophe that was birdwatcher> kung) are being played VERY WELL. from someone who remembers the joy of hearing Type I jams for the first time AND the amazement when i heard the cowfunk of '97-98 introduce itself to the phans, i say i'd rather hear the band play what they want than make demands about what i need to hear.
i enjoy debate and constructive criticism more than most; but after reading this review and many of the negative comments that follow, i honestly feel several of yall would benefit from taking some time off from Phish - absence may indeed make the heart grow fonder. if you can't do that, then at least look for me at the NC shows (think Louis CK). i'll give you a big hug and maybe the perma-grin on my face will rub on your soul.
Unfortunately, you pretty much wreck the whole affair by subscribing to the "if you don't love Phish unconditionally then stop seeing Phish" meme.
It sucks. It really does. It's a pedantic thing to say. The people you're addressing have invested so many dollars and way more hours in the band it would make your head spin, and they are grown ups capable of making their own choices. For many of these people the choice is not whether to see Phish, but whether to see 10 shows or 8.
It's like one person wrote that sentence, and another person wrote the rest of the post.
of course people can make their own choices. no one has suggested such fans be barred from attending. but if "frustration" and "disappointment" are the most common reactions one has to attending concerts of a band they love, something is amiss. and from the looks of the literally thousands of fans around me who appeared to be having a BLAST at Wednesday's show, it may not be the band that needs to change. and even if you still want to defend that "yes, actually, it IS the band that needs to change, they need to do _______ for the show to meet my standards of what is a 'good Phish show'," then your disappointment is going to continue.
I think a lot of Phish fans are middle aged now, like me. Time and mortality are accelerating and the degree to which we can manage and cope with that gracefully is varied. Think of how intertwined your life is with Phish's music; at least for me it has been the soundtrack of my late 20s, all of my 30s, and at least a bit of my early 40s. So as Phish changes it is natural to want to comment on and otherwise process it.
I think this explains a lot of the drama around 3.0 Phish. Phish has defied linear time, gravity, and other forces of nature; I'm sure part of me wants to see them defy age and mortality too.
Only thing I have to add/say relating to this long parlay is what I felt at my 2 shows this summer. They are all playing exceptionally well on an individual level, agreed. But to me it doesn't seem they are listening to one another as they play. Transitions, fluidity, and cohesion exist when the band is playing as one driving force. Besides the composed sections, that driving force is more often than not absent. It is easier to stop the song and start a new. I really think that Blossom Sally shined as bright as it did because Trey laid off the guitar for a spell and let the other 3 put something together. He stopped playing(for the most part) and therefore.. probably listened more. Mike seems bored and I feel he would rather be touring with his solo project. Where are all his songs from the spring? Looks like Trey has completely given up on Sugar Shack. Round Room 3.0 is a cookie-cutter. It was awesome to see some emotion on Mike's face for the bass solo outro during YEM at Riverbend. "Sweet I get to play!?!" Fish and Page are the MVP's for me this tour. Page is tearing up the keys and man, did he want to cut loose on that Tube at Blossom. Nope. Rip-cord. Let Phil sing!!=Let Page play!!!
I am curious to see where this goes. Fall last year was making nice progress towards what I think we(yeah I am talking to you) were looking for. This tour seems kinda sugar-free to me. I don't give a shit if I get a bunch of 3.0 noobs tellin me whatever- best this, RAGE that. I've been in love with this band for 16 plus years and this is like, my opinion, man. My frame of reference includes all the point-O's of this band and for me to sit here and fluff how I feel about their current state aint gonna happen. I lay back in the cut most of the time, stay pretty humble. This thread goaded me to say more than I usual about the current state of the phish. My opinion is as valuable as yours. Not jaded. Educated
Second set: Birds?? not in 98 and not now. Blossom Possum.. jaggered up timing and all. At least it was unique. Piper was filler on 6/4 and not the kind you put at the end of a blank tape as a tasty bonus-morsel. Steam is AWESOME. I like it a lot. Some Phish songs take me a bit to warm up to but not Steam. I can see this turning into something(hopefully) like the Meat soundcheck jam from 7/8/98. Now, that Sally IS SPECIAL. They could'a done that staccato/plinko segment for the rest of the show and I would have been beaming! Anyways, two and a half hour concert and there was about 40 minutes of keeper. And this is one of the better shows of the tour????? That's not how I remember it. That is definately not how I want it to be. We know what this car is capable of..... let's get er out on the open road and see what she can do.
I'm not gonna get into Riverbend except I had been waiting since Big Cypress for another C&P and, well. I got one. Prior to the OH shows I was scheming on how I could make it to more shows. "Well, Darien is only 4 and a half from the Burgh. I could get Wed off...." Then after following the tour through Bethel and PNC I was like, well, let's see how the OH shows are. Now, I want everyone to know I had an excellent time and this tirade makes it sound like I am hating, but I'm not. Love Phish. But driving home I decided I was cool with the 2 shows I got. This is the first time in my 16 years of Phishin that this decision has been at all easy. And I am ok with not seeing them until.... ??? Looks like a NYE run maybe!?! Next year maybe!?! I don't know but I hope they either shift gears and stop posing like the kings of jam or do something with their off time to bring some cohesion to the group. I am hopeful but weary.
@tmwsiy Notice at the bottom of Aviv's blog how he denied the 'comments' part of the blog. He probably didn't want to deal with the imminent retaliation. Like the one I'm about to most likely experience.
Peace and love the phish
It's not a matter of step back and see less shows. I know what I hear and I know the kind of music these four guys can make. Going to less shows won't change that. Nevertheless, if I was the guy next to you at Alpharetta, you would almost certainly count me among those "having a blast."
I simply refuse to submit to the concept, as some put worth in this forum as a whole, that there is no value in evaluating art on its own merits. The only way to comment on how good a particular Monet painting is is by comparing it to other artists' work and to all of Monet's other paintings. For some reason, many people bristle when anyone compares a Phish show to other shows the band has played, especially in different eras.
As long as it is stated as opinion, how can one bristle at comparing an artists' work to the rest of their output? Monet is my favorite painter by a country mile. There are some of his paintings that I don't care for as much as others. But they are still Monet paintings. I still love them. So does it make me 'jaded' about Monet if I don't like every single one of his paintings as much as The Water-Lily Pond, 1899? I would argue that it sure doesn't.
I have not witnessed the same kind of attitudes in the classical music world. There are plenty of people who like Gustav Mahler's earlier works more than his later works and yet I've never heard anyone ever call someone 'jaded' for having that view. I've also never heard anyone who likes Mahler 3 better than Mahler 9 to 'stop analyzing and enjoy'.
I am so excited for Portsmouth I can't sit still. I used to have the opportunity to see a whole lot of shows but now that I'm married, own a house, all that good stuff, I've had to let up big time. This will be the only show that I see in 2011 and I will have a BLAST. But it might not be on my iPod six months later. That remains to be seen. But like @lumpblockclod said above, if I was next to you at a show, you would almost certainly count me among those "having a blast" as well.
Phish for President in 2012.
THAT'S the shit that (still, do this day, no matter how I feel about 3.0 or whatever) makes me marvel at the simple power of four guys making music together. The elements of surprise and wonder and danger are irreproachable.
I haven't been surprised since Dog Log at Merriweather Post in 2000.
Phish has been playing for 30 years? When some of you saw them in version 2.0 or even at inception, it was fresh, new and something totally unique. I am reminded of the 56 minute Runaway Jim --- takes you someplace and back again and you wonder where the time went. Now it's more of a meta-experience --- they come on stage at 8pm and leave me after 11 and I wonder where the time has gone. Sure, I get bored at times, but I also get uber-excited during those three hours, and my feet always hurt from dancing on cement. I am blessed to see them and to experience a truly one of a kind event.
As some of you know, I have been a Rush fan for 30 years as well --- COMPLETELY different set-up; they try for playing note perfect rote versions of their songs, and that is what those shows are about. Other end of the spectrum here.
Thank you Phish.
Periodically, through the years I have found myself either too far or too close to the band. In the mid-to-late 80's, I was perhaps at what I now consider a great distance. They were a really neat band, talented and different. I'd see a show, enjoy, and forget until next they popped up on radar. In the 90's I began to see them regularly - perhaps too much. I found myself getting bored at times with songs I used to love because I'd seen them a lot. I had gotten too close. Finally, the closeness got too much - I felt I had lost perspective - that they had become more than what they were - a really good band. I forced myself away.
Since then I've remained at what I consider a comfortable distance. I check them out a couple of times per year. I listen to them sporadically in between. I try to keep them at a distance from which I can appreciate them. Not too close to see the weathering pock marks; not too far away that I forget what hooked me in the first place.
That being said - I had a great time at Great Woods. I thought they sounded great and seemed to be having a good time. I was a bit bored with the webcast set 2. Time for a break...I'll be back. After all, they're a good band, one of my favorites!
You're all too spoilt. In the land of OZ a live gig/tour consists of a well worn set list that will almost always revolve around radio hits. The majority of Australian audiences are just too cool to tolerate improvisation in rock.
After 15 years I would like to see Phish play just once, even on a bad night I'm sure it would pass Australian standards a million fold.
In 94 and 97 they discovered new ways to jam. The crowd loved it, and they could have stayed in either of those styles for the rest of their career and made tons of cash and made lots of people happy. But that's not what Phish does. They move forward. They find something new and work that for a while and then move onto something else. So in 98, they didn't stick with the same style of funk jamming as they did in 97. They spent more time digging into their catalog and pulling out covers no one would ever expect: Rhinoceros? Sabotage? Who could have predicted that in the fall of 97?
So in 2011 you can't expect them to do the same things they did in 2010. Or ever before. They're looking for a new things to do. They open shows with requests, they close sets with The Curtain With. They focus more on the structure of the song and the story of the song than a huge jam. Are they always successful? No. But that's what happens when you are always moving forward.
The standard for Phish should not be, "is this like Hampton 97?" It should be "have I seen them do this before?"
<snip>
Well, that presumes that they are "always moving forward," and I suppose that is what is really at issue, as opposed to the assumption that you make, that they are in fact always doing so. Are they? Hard to say. But to assume that because one asks that question that they want Phish music "to be like Hampton '97" misses the point entirely. As soon as someone says "oh, gee, I want to play like they did at Hampton '97" then you'll have a point, otherwise you aren't reading for content, you are reading for straw men.
Your points are appreciated, I hear what you are saying in the abstract. I'm quite sure, there will be many commenters in here, AFTER the high quality Charlotte show, saying "oh, well, not a nostalgia act NOW, are they?" :-) And no, in *Charlotte*, they showed much better. Which is awesome! I only wanted to point out, in defense of the OP, that this review was in reference to one show. The commenters here are drawing from *different shows* that were not Alpharetta2. Apples, oranges.
Phish is a great band (duh!). The folks bothering to comment here obviously love the art they produce. To my eyes, that comes through clear as day in the vast majority of the comments. Part of loving a complex, rich, diverse artistic phenomenon involves all sorts of emotions and characterizations from admiration, awe, indifference, confusion, appreciation, etc. So when you read these posts and comments, my only advice would be to READ them, presume neutral at worst and positive at best intentions, and THINK about what is being said, instead of lurching toward the first available preconception of some "position" that you can most easily "refute."
Hope that makes some sense. This whole thread demonstrates why I'm simultaneously thrilled, fascinated, and confused both by Phish, and Phish fans. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why the whole endeavor is so compelling.
Cheers.
i've loved all the recent show reviews on here and this comment threat was a rewarding read - such an interesting time in 3.0 (and overall in phishtory)
i don't know why, but my thought this evening
- after they shone much brighter tonight (can't believe anyone really doubts the phish capacity to deliver - nostalgia act - not in my book, unless that is only pointing out the fact that there is so much over the decades to look back happily upon that phish has delivered) -
- is that i really hope the nastiness of that ATL storm and the conflicted phish emotions the show stoked in phans in the two days since, the general unease on what tour is saying right now, etc -
that 6.15 > 6.17.2011 is noted as a key/final turning point fulcrum in the eventual total and complete phish ascension that we all know is possible and imo likely
5 shows til' the gorge!
Why would you think, based on one review, that anyone "forgets 2010?" First, 2010 was uneven at best, but did indeed include many great shows, including those that you mention? Fall '10 was generally a very, very good tour (lets not forget Augusta and Manchester in that mix). I'm not sure where either the OP or anyone in this thread is saying anything to the contrary.
I did read at least 10 replies on here that completely trashed all of 3.0, so I wanted to jump in and defend 2010 a bit.
<snip>
This whole thread demonstrates why I'm simultaneously thrilled, fascinated, and confused both by Phish, and Phish fans. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why the whole endeavor is so compelling.
I totally agree. It's just fun to debate this stuff with people who have strong opinions and are articulate enough to express them well. I promise to reply to specific stuff in the future and stick to comparing apples to apples.
Good talk, man. Good talk.
;-P
I've read reviews I've disagreed with before, some positive some negative, but there was at least some resemblance to the actual show. But, this is the first time I've ever read a supposed review in which I could not even recognize it as having anything to do with the show I saw.
Shame! Shame on Phish.net for posting it, and Shame on Jeremy D. Goodwin, a supposed communications expert, for phoning in an agenda based essay under the guise of a show review.
Was nice to read this series of threads and see the names of rmp'ers from the day providing informed commentary vs. the typical naysaying PT/2.0/3.0 fluff crowd.
It will really be a disappointment if the band takes from Alpha2 anything other than their fans deserve inspired performances every night. What JEG has to say holds truth and at $45+ tickets, cost of travel and lodging, the band needs to show intent and dedication to make magic happen.While inspiration may evoke failure, I'm willing to take it so long as the band is not mailing it in.
Timber had some moments, and wheee Suzy had a crescendo (though trey cut in on page) but c'mon, it's nothing that special in light of the body of work (see, e.g. 10/18/96 II Suzy for something to take home with you).
Also, to date no one has even reference the idea mentioned (by me) in a post above about lack of spontaneity in the night and failure to seize on mother nature's relevant organic moment. That - to me - supports everything wrong with Alpha2.
This was an entirely "in the moment" show, everything from the first set audibles, where Trey kept pulling out songs that somehow referenced water, to the second set resumption of mound, and its reference to seeking shelter, to the high octane RnR which seemed like Phish was trying to out power the storm, to the a cappella set finish, (with its shades of another flooded Atlanta show).
I'll definitely remember it as an amazing experience.