This show was webcast via LivePhish. Bathtub Gin contained a Soul Shakedown Party tease from Mike. At the end of Hood, Trey noted that it was the last set of tour, thanked everyone for an "absolutely joyous summer," then pantomimed crying and said "I don't want to go home." Trey added that "We'd also like to say, 'fuck your face'." The soundcheck Jam contained a Three Little Birds quote by Mike and a Don't Worry Be Happy quote by Trey.
This review is not just a recap of last night but the whole run at Dick’s. When Trey took the stage the look in his eyes will be forever stained in my brain, he had a pure unfiltered desire to get his rage on in universally cosmic proportions. The first chord of CTB was set at a voltage that could knock down an elephant; I’m no expert, but I’d say it was on par with a poor man’s nuclear bomb – maybe one or two kilotons. It was like phish decided before the show that the best way to end the summer tour was to deploy a Kodiak bear infected with rabies to fight a bunch of rabid, down syndrome badgers. The only way you could get the equivalent of the energy of this run would be to tie yourself to your car’s radiator and do 70 mph in first gear. Mike’s bass slaps were producing massive fireballs and brain-trauma-inducing concussive shockwaves. The way Page was tickling the keys gave me a boner large enough to play badminton or maybe hang wind chimes from it. Fishman was soaring among the milk way making it rain down jellybeans. These shows changed my whole perspective on life; now I find it socially acceptable to drink whiskey mixed with cough syrup for breakfast. Right around the encore, I was so enchanted by the music I was about to hump a squirrel that had crawled on the lawn; luckily for me phish didn’t come back for a 2nd encore or I might not be typing this still a virgin to trans-species sex. FREE MEATBALLS! Thanks Phish.
So I've said my piece about the last 2 shows apparently to many people's chagrin. I thought set 2 night 2 was mindblowing, and night 3 Ride-Captain-Ride-onwards was pit of this world. Was that a Sand? Or the greatest thing phish has ever done? Or both? I hope phish reads what we say, because my god we fucking love what the band has evolved in to, and if they keep doing this, they are going to change people's perspective of what a song or a "jam" really is. When they break down a song a put it back together again, it is not a jam. They are doing something special, and we all love it, and we all hope it keeps progressing. Stay sober. Stay phresh. Stay phish. Love you guys.
The first set's the first set (although the Gin's pretty nifty, so hey). The second set's my pick for the best of the Dick's run (since you didn't ask - 9/2 II, 8/31 II, 8/31 I, 9/1 II, 9/1 I, 9/2 I), probably the set of the year (by a nose over 8/19 II, which I thought was taking the prize, and as it turns out I would rate below the first three Dick's sets I mentioned), and possibly even the best set of 3.0.
It's funny that Phish happened to release the 12/6/97 show so soon after this bad boy was played - not that I think this second set is as good as 12/6/97 II, but it definitely feels similar in that it's nearly 50 minutes of music that encompasses three different songs yet all feel like one massive jam. Sand goes full-fathoms-five deep before pulling itself out of the mire and opening up the hose, then leads into a glorious reprise of the main theme that leads into a plinko-laden, genius segue into Ghost, which immediately goes dark and stays dark before dissolving into a beautiful puddle and brilliantly segueing *again* into Piper, which opens up the hose once again and brings some serious heat before the bottom drops out and the band explores yet another dark place...and then turns into 20 Years Later, which may be an odd choice, but hardly one to begrudge the band given the brilliant music they'd just played beforehand. And don't sleep on the Hood either, 16 minutes of pure bliss to close things out. This is one of those sets that you almost feel compelled to play over and over again, to pick out parts you missed earlier, like a good book you reread over and over to marvel at how good the prose is. And Phish 2012 has no shortage of great musical prose.
I guess the upshot of all of this is that not only is Dick's 2012 the run of 3.0, 3 of the 10 best shows they've played since 3.0 began (with 8/31 the show of 3.0 and - hell, I'll say it - the best since Fukuoka, apologies to 2/28/03 and SPAC 04 and 8/15/11 and 8/19/12 and whatever else you want to stack up against it), but we've now reached a big moment for Phish (or maybe it feels like it to me), where the stakes seem to have been raised in a way they haven't since they returned. We're now seeing shows that we can legitimately say are the best of 3.0, as well as shows that we can even stack up against the good ol' days, and that is no small thing. 2013 is shaping up to be a huge year for The Phish From Vermont, and whether or not they live up to those expectations, we can say that Dick's 2012 *gave* us those expectations, and for that I will forever be grateful.
Second set was essentially perfect. Twenty Years Later came out of nowhere, but honestly, who gives a fuck at this point? Glorious improv all the way through to cap the 'tour de force' that was summer 2012 off in style.
Just wow. Truly a gift to behold. If u were in the building and didn't hv at least 3 total freak out moments, I question your disposition. That 2nd set is destined for miner-level superlatives and the show is fucking deserving of them. A true triumph. Masterful. Picasso, Christ, and phish. Superlatives, there just ain't enough of them for that 2nd set.
(Set one was standards central, all cleanly played, with typical type one stress and release phish-rager-goodness, I keep the focus to the meat of it though! Set Two, Enjoy! )
Sand is unleashed from the arsenal for the last time (and to be clear, redundancy abounds, as everything played tonight is/was played for the last time this tour)and in its rhythmic torrent unleashed from the opening licks, set two is looking like things are going to get weird! It only took a few moments out of the song proper to get into IT. But I am getting ahead of myself; the gusto that was apparent in every note played was wholly reciprocated by the audiences keen attentiveness: the massive collective was housed in the communal quasi-make-shift congregation that gathered for what turned out to be a wholly religious experience. Page's comps that resonated just under the lead guitar, Mike's infectious bass groove, Fish tapping away at his hi-hat…it all meant something. I liken it to a good piece of fiction, where every word is intended, no filler, each line constructed had to exist for every other line to have a chance existing. We are six minutes in and the whole band has locked into some cosmic joke that they are attempting to spell out musically, letting it flow through them. Page is still on point following right behind Trey jumping from rig to rig, and settling in on his baby grand. Unlike Sands of past, where Mike keeps the Sand bass repetition very much in line, this one strays from Sand while clinging to the last grains as it erupts to same cosmos that we were treated to the previous evening.
Trey whines out a long note before hitting his signature 3.0 staccato licks and Page's clav is sinister in its approach to what Big Red is throwing down. From this quick tempo section, entering in at the 10 minute mark, Trey begins to sink the band back into the quick Sand, briefly, before registering some funk filled licks, which trail into a howling drone. It is in these section, where the drone begins to take on the rhythm of the crowd, that the band seems to re-group (not lost, but really opening their minds and hearts to each other, to the crowd)! Supersonic loops, Page's effects, bass bombs that would rival those dropped on some unsuspecting rival country…the sirens now blaring and we are in heaven, elysium, gone now from the plane of existence, the band in fully into another stratosphere, and we are left, we have left the physical realm. Repetition of this uplifting beat, screams echo from behind, more cries of exaltation. In this rhythm, very much Gorge 2011 Rock and Roll Jam, is then christened with Trey playing a section that almost seems wholly composed, the four horsemen of the apocalypse now locked into each other, and Page steps up, and begins to take a lead where Trey steps back. 17 minutes in and I am lost at how we got this far into the Jam, and (oh trey's tremolos). Sand, now dissolved completely, has become a new beast, with its sights set on total annihilation.
Interesting anecdote (as Trey's machine gun licks begin to bring the rise of the jam) the eerily thematically linked sections of this song, all come together as I walk the entire surrounds of the venue, before taking up shop dead center, behind the last bank of speakers; it culminating in the classic tension and release the band knows so well. Then, from the ether, formulating like the cyclical nature of the rain clouds that riddled Commerce City earlier that afternoon, we come to and are dropped from the sky right back into the semi-completion of Sand.
Now this is where I love my thought processes getting the best of me, because with a little Mike Plinko action, Sand's rhythms, which always have hinted at Ghost in my mind, slowly transform this massive jam, seamlessly, (very deserving of --> on this transition) and here we are tour ending Second set Ghost. The irony of the sheer nastiness of this segue, fusion, jazz funk fugue, is that 30 seconds into the Ghost, its not really Ghost yet (according to my livephish download, by the by) I could trade in all the songs to completion just for the band to play a montage of valid fusions from one song to the next. (ones that deserve -->)! The Ghost, to take the thematic implications of the Sand fiasco we just some how got ourselves out of (like some high school debacle regarding a very near-run in with the authorities) is now registering in my mind; maybe we didn't actually get out of that Dick'sand alive, but rather, were sleighed by the four headed demon equipped with musical quasi-weapon instruments, and we have now been blessed to be transplanted back onto earth, as apparitions…as Ghosts.
It doesn't take long for the molasses to take hold and the undulation of thick, chunky effects driven leads, Page's comps, Mikes bass nails on rails, and Phish, holding down the tempo, my thoughts as I take this all in, along with the twirling freakers, spin-reeling, holding from long strings, between his legs, what appears to resemble, or signify testicles (makes sense, with all the Dick humor) are jumbled thoughts, barely able to comprehend as the Trey's wah effects are combined with searing leads, still being accurately traced by Page, just a little louder than his previous destruction of Sand. We are now over 30 minutes into this set, and locked back into a whole band groove, which is just fine with me, building in speed, and Mike's bass finally making moves for the lead, no one ego overtaking at any moment, but Mike clearly holding the reigns, as Page cascades a sprinkling of moon dust behind him.
As this section raps up, me re-hashing my set list book, all scribbles at this point, I realize we are only in Song 2! A no quarter theme arises from the smoldering ashes, the remnants of what was Ghost and the audience, and as a Phoenix from the ashes, or a Worm from the Sand, Piper graces us with his lovely presence, a sobering intro to say the least, which doesn't take long to get the cosmos realigned, smiles abound from those able to be fortunate to be present for this final Sunday sermon from our favorite preaches, giving us insight into the Universe by allowing themselves to be opened up to its rhythm and ancient voice. These four conduits for, what I feel is, the Platonic Form of Beauty, how Plato feels their is one true form for which all things are spawned, from that Perfect (insert object here) Phish is presenting us the Platonic Form of Music.
Having settled a little further back, Fish side, against the far back rail, I overwhelmed by the sheer majesty, as I am able to be a passenger on this voyage, all four musicians, inextricably linked via some tap into each other's souls. There ability to turn on a dime, and enter a whole new rhythmic progression, and so smoothly, obviously comes from a summer of magic, and a career that beckons the question (the one no one wants to ask) will this end? I fear the loss of this, as a piece of me will certainly be taken, as it almost was a few years ago.
Now Trey comping Page, in this last passage of the tale of Piper, risen from the Sand, and as the final stretch is nearing, each member locked and loaded, kung-fu style, a down-right, Chuck Norris-Bruce Lee style ass whooping! The fitting landing pad, for what just occurred is 20 years later that comes next, and as much as this might be a breather, it is more a reflection, like McGrupp recounts what occurred in Gamehendge, this song paints the mural of the arc of an ever evolving (mature) band, having wrestled with it all, and come out on the other side, able to produce such infinitely transcending Music.
We stand at the same precipice we found ourselves gazing off the previous evening, knowing we only needed but a taste of what we had just experienced to be fulfilled, band bows, house lights up. But no, here comes the added punctuation. About to veer off this cliffside, towards the denouement, everything we get from here on in is the sweet frost on the proverbial cake, the white caps to the majestic rockies, which in and of themselves, Snow caps aside, are enough to fill your soul. But no, having just been told the meaning of life, we are granted the chance to be told it yet again, to revel in the majesty of IT!
My girlfriend had been chasing Lizards for 50 shows, (missing out on the Worcester Lizards; a show I was regretfully, for her sake, at) but with the Gamehendge classic's, and elusive set list evader's, opening notes from Trey, I began to run circles around her; her jaw dropped cartoon style to the grimy floor of Dick's, but as she scooped it up, and was basking in the positive wave of energy, a bit of sadness overcame her. And it was in her eyes, in he heart I was let on to, until now, what I may not have always been able to put words to. IT, that elusive intangible, wholly cosmic convergence of so many outside forces, that we are but a small morsel in the larger chocolate chip cookie that IT encompasses, but a still a necessary ingredient, without which IT could never occur (Tree fallen to deaf ears); IT, what we just experienced, while certainly a goal of mine to experience, to revel in, to roll around and grovel in the cosmic muck, is also to be sought. Once you have seen it, you begin to chase the proverbial four headed dragon, 15 years across the planet, through Blizzard and scalding heat, occasionally it slipping through your hands, like fine grains of sand, other times, grasped, like tonight, brimming on the moment of wake from a heavenly dream, knowing you will not depart from this venue with IT in tow. Having held IT, you learn to let it go, knowing that the old adage of if it's meant to be, when let go, it will surely return. We would be like Wilson to think we could keep the book to ourselves, like Golum his ring, which in all it's power and understanding, is meant not to be owned, or possessed, but glimpsed for sometimes fractions of seconds, sometimes over the course of a Sunday evening, sometimes to be conveniently, if not seemingly deliberately, purposely evading your questing for IT, your hope of drinking from ITs cup, and quenching your thirst for IT. There, in her eyes, she had just been witness to IT, and it was sad, because, that specific quest was now over, and all at once, as the 10 minute mark hit, and the finally notes stretched into the cool colorado air, aloft in the breeze, the evening was drawing to a close, and the end of the summer was here; with us along the journey, a friend of vast significance, of consoling words, and infinite insight into IT, and Summer too, jettisoned from our lives, packed up its ruck-sack and sped off into the distance, without leaving their number, but knowing we will be seeing them once more, once the days begin to grow longer, and the sun remains in the balance of the sky for what seems like infinity, as if these days would never end!
Harry Hood was the obvious punctuation on this final chapter to this epic story of summer 2012; most complete tour; re-emergence of a band that can consistently kick it (yes they can) night in and night out, regardless of Web-Casting, couch tour and all the other Tweet-Space-Booking-trending-hullabaloo, that envelopes our modern society, What these performances have done, if anything, is forced those at home to get to their local amphitheater, local music venue, and tap into IT! Character Zero is the epilogue which begs the question, of how one might proceed in life, which we will all be asking ourselves, even after we were able to, albeit briefly, fold over time and look back upon ourselves. But we ramble from our respective seats, out into the lot, legs aching, sweat now drying to light saltiness, and the air is a bit sweeter, if not bitter sweet, the sky a little brighter, and the journey home, while still a daunting task, is just a little bit more manageable, knowing we were able to add another journey to the record books of our relentless questå for IT. Thank you, Phish!
I'm unable to fall asleep becuase of phish. They have ruined my happiness with normal music. I am still lost in the oblivion of what phish has done these last few days. But I dare anyone to find me a better 8 hours of music. Can't be done.
First set was long and mostly standard with a few above average segments.
Second set was the single greatest set of Phish in history. Somewhere in that Ghost jam, the web cam captured an entire crowd slack-jawed. Looked like the people wouldn't even dance. Everyone just got their faces fucked. SO it goes, the web broadcast was epic!
Finished 15 minutes early as a gift to everyone at the venue working behind the scenes. Nothing more to say.
What can I say about the last night of Dicks except it was everything I thought it would be. The first set was very well played, and really picked up towards the end, beginning with Ride Captain, Ride.
But the second set is where it's at. All we really need to talk about is Sand, Ghost, Piper. These three songs accounted for nearly an hour of high quality, exploratory music alone. 20 Yrs fit well, and the Lizards was rocking. I love that damn song! Hood finished the 2nd set strong. A solid, high energy Zero taboot, and call it a night.
All 3 nights were great, and are certainly tour highlights. For second leg I've it ranked as following: 1st night Dicks, St. Louis, 3rd night Dicks.
Can't wait to see what they've got in store for the New Years run.
I had a singular moment in the first set of this show that encapsulated my entire experience of not only this show, but of the entire Dick's run. So there I am, my hands in the air, waving them like I just didn't care when a random glowstick lands perfectly in my upraised left hand. I didn't have to even grab it. It landed in just the right spot and at just the right time. Laughing, I admired the serendipity and gazed upon the stage and sent that glowstick skyward to join it's flying friends.
1st set song choices were great, an early set DWD, that was fun cause trey forgot the lyrics, and bathtub gin which was stellar for a first set jam. sample, bott were played great,rift always awesome,free needed a little more energy for the awesome song it is, i was missing a hurricane from mike but who cares. ride captain ride is a great song that amped the band back up, reminiscing of san fran. maze lit the place up, halleys comet always fun but ended a little abruptly. then a smoke show 46 days that just tore the roof off. at the end of 46 days we hit the 90 min mark and i thought for sure that was the end of the set, and pretty sure so did mike. then trey just busted into possum and took every body by surprise.
second set sand killed it!!! trey winded down the jam and paige, oh man paige!! stepped in there and took it to a whole new realm. 15 min later fish brought the beat back and they pulled it back in. beautiful! then one of the most perfect transitions ever, and this one into ghost. ghost again, huge!!! into a great piper. those 3 songs were huge jams. highly exploratory and full of energy. to me 20 years later was perfectly placed. it said allot after those 3 songs. then we get a taste of gamehendge with lizards, pretty sure they looked at each other and said why not?! again perfect placement and perfect musicianship high high energy. great hood closer. and a character zero encore
all in all it doesn't get any better.
that was soaring through gamehendge with the only band that can take you there. out of body out of mind.
if you've never head phish dreams you will now!!!
excellent song choices, better placements and even better music
thank you phish for laying it all out there night after night this summer.
it feels like 98-99 with the build up to big cypress. what are we building up for? 30th anniversary tour? with a stellar 3 day festi!!!!
2nd 6 song set in 3 days!! i was hopn after trey spoke about how much fun they were havn and how genuine he was about this tour being over they would drop fall tour dates. thats me jus dreamin tho. neways standard first set imo. 2nd set whole different story. The sand is absolute must hear material, possibly the best jam of tour but thats all relative withh all the amazing jams they threw down especially over the three day run at dicks. sand-->ghost-->piper is the meat of this set and will prob be listened to over and over by phans including me. However the Hood they dropped later in the set was absolute bliss. the jam was so patient and beautiful. one of the top hoods this tour imo.
What a magical show this was. After 2 nights of completely obliterating 3.0 standards I figured the last night of the run would be nothing close the the first. Oh boy, I was wrong. I rarely indulge in psychedelics or other drugs but a buddy gave me a nice PEZ dose right as CTB started. I've dosed only a few times and they seem to play BAG every time I do...so I knew I was in for a special night. I will also note that I was with a group of about 20 friends, so that added to the memory big time
The first set was relatively standard but showcased rock solid playing and an engaged and respectful crowd. Ride Captain Ride was a huge treat and the band finished the set with an energetic and tight segment of 46 Days > Possum.
The second set with forever be ingrained in the back of my head. Phish kicked things off with a loose and groovy Sand which quickly traveled into uncharted territory. Fishman, mike, and page and working as a unit while Trey is laying down clean buttery lead. This blissful jam did not drag on in any way. It was focused, determined Phish - playing with a passion to move through the improv so naturally. After a crushing peak Sand melted beautifully into Ghost. We had just witnessed something epic. Ghost continued to showcase the band's creative and delicate playing that has taken place in this new era. 20 Years Later was placed right in the middle of the set, giving it the treatment it deserves. The dark, melodic, and perfectly toned riffs from Trey absolutely hit the spot. This is Phish in 2012 - 20 years later. And then boom, as if I didn't even know it would sneak up on me, Lizards pops out. Seeing this song on L was an incredibly special moment that I will cherish forever. Capping the set with one of my top 3 phish songs ever, a beautifully placed Harry Hood. The encore was also a perfect choice in Zero because of the energy at the moment. Zero is also one of my favorite encores and while it might be looked down upon at times, it certainly did not disappoint. This second set will be one of the best this band will play in this era because it truly can't get much better. I will always remember this show for the seamless segment of Sand>Ghost which absolutely transcended everyone in attendance. I honestly felt that it lasted about 30 seconds that's how good it was. Phish loves Dick's and everyone was going absolutely apeshit bonkers in the crowd. Thank you phish. What a memory and a show I will always revisit.
The third and final installment of my birthday weekend culminated in a orgasmic jam release in the 2nd set. But my show was made in the latter part of the 1st set, certainly not as jammed out as the rest of the show but as being on the train since '09, I'm still getting to know the catalog and have my faves as others have, too. And 46 Days was it, the song I dared to mention at the beginning of the run but immediately erased out of the personal memory bank once the run started, too much to ask for and nearly too much to have gotten, IMHO it was the beginning of the beginning of what was to be presented to us for the rest of our time@Dick's, it over flowed lava-like with jam after jam after jam, the nearly never-ending 46 Days and the one that pretty much completed my short wish list that started to be fulfilled with Carini in the 1st show.
Otherwise, nothing that I can add 'bout the 2nd set except that like many among us I couldn't dance (for various reasons) during the Sand>Ghost>Piper segment but stood slack-jawed to the floor because my face was being fucked once again, the Twenty Years Later (my first) was gorgeously powerful, The Lizards was powerfully beautiful and the Hood was everything it could be. Zero represented the amount of energy I had at the end of it, they asked it all from me and got it all. Happily and without hesitation. Because they want us to be happy.
Thank you Phish for the biggest, baddest, greatest and longest birthday party I've ever been given. Friday, my birthday show, was my favorite but simply due to personal preference and it easily could have been any of the three, they were simply that good show in and show out. Thank you to my beloved peeps for traveling near and far to share my birthday and good times here in Colorado. And thank you Dick's for letting me be me. I LOVE DICK'S! And so does Phish. In that platonic, non-inhaling sort-of way...:-wink/smile!
Truly an amazing show. I decided to get as close as possible for the last night, and it was totally worth it. I was about 4 people deep right in front of Page; just an amazing experience. The first set seemed to go on forever and I wasn't totally sold on the song selection, although I think they played great versions of each song and were definitely kicking ass. The second set is about as close to perfection as I've ever seen. Amazing flow and patience, deep, funky grooves. This second set had it all. I was and still am in awe.
I thought I had seen the best of the best after night three of Bill Graham, but this just goes to show that the Phish can and will continue to blow me away and shatter my expectations every time I see them
What can I say about the last night of Dicks except it was everything I thought it would be. The first set was very well played, and really picked up towards the end, beginning with Ride Captain, Ride.
But the second set is where it's at. All we really need to talk about is Sand
For those interested in geneology, compare Sand->Ghost in this set to the Simple->Ghost at 8/29/14. (in fact, you won't mind listening to those again even if not interested) in this set, you can distinctly hear Fish drop to a different beat about 3 minutes before the Ghost begins, as other posters have mentioned above. So it makes sense to consider that EndSandJam rather as the intro to Ghost, and a similar impression is left with the '14 version of Simple, where the two intros to Ghost are clearly related...and some of the best Phish you'll hear.
Great show! The second set was brilliantly played, highlighted by a "Sand" for the ages that segued into a smokin' hot version of Ghost not seen at any other show of 2012 in my opinion. I loved some of the unique new turns they gave to "Hood", and although subtle I think this was one of the top Hood's of the summer, if not the best.
Although each song of set II was solid, I have to say that I could only give this show 4 stars and not 5, for the simple fact that with the exception of awesome versions of Maze and Bathtub Gin in set I, everything else in that set wasan afterthought. As with almost all set I's for summer '12, it was the warm up for the main event of set II. For me, a 5-star show should be pure brilliance from the first note to the last, and this one doesn't fit that criteria. Don't get me wrong - I loved this show, but it's not in the top echelon of Phish shows. (Top echelon of 2012, sure, but not all-time.)
The second set is probably my favorite set of the entire tour. From the way that Sand started, I could tell it was gonna be special. They almost took turns teasing the main riff for a second or so each before launching right into the groove. And oh, the places it goes! It's definitely a culmination of what the song has been building up to all year (as was the case with the previous night's Light). A brilliant segue into a solid Ghost. First two songs say it all. Not to mention one of the few Lizards of the year and a wonderful Hood closer.
I can't send private messages or I'd respond to waxbanks or waxbanxnor whatever it was. I like you. You're allright. 1) no more comparing genres than the people I was responding to. And 2) I'm responding to vigor fertility and clarity equally. I don't think their was any shortage of creativity and fertility in 1992 and 1993. If anything I think they were at their most creative and fertile. So I disagree with your second statement aalthough it's a fair point to think that. I love the sand. That was awesome. And I loved last nights Light. That was great too. But they're arguably not even te best versions of those songs let alone better than their best versions of better phish songs so the best ever is just kinda silly, that's all. Great Light and great Sand. No doubt. That's all I'd say about that show but people with their it's the best show ever and no 8 hours of music better? Come on. But wax guy. You're allright.
Good shows. But 8 hour of better music is an easy challenge. It would be phish music of course. But still an easy challenege. Eithout even thinking too hard; New years run 93 is far better run of music. I love where phish is at now. They're doing great things. I really feel bad for 15 year vets though as they missed most of the best phish in history, but happy they're finding something better than 99-2004 ( their weak years) in the 3.0.
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