Chicago Piper definitely deserves a spot on this list!

Definitely think the Bill Graham Energy is better than Chicago's.

@AllForYourDelight said:

Chicago Piper definitely deserves a spot on this list!

Nvm, I'm blind as a bat clearly.

Anyone who gives the Tahoe Tweezer thumbs down is no longer allowed to listen to Phish.

Vultures was uber-awesome and ridiculously tight for not having been performed in 13 months and being that it is a rarity I think it was my favorite jam of the summer!

The Tahoe Tweezer...life changing...Woo!

Crosseyed and Painless from PNC is for sure the number 2 to the Tahoe Tweezer

Where's the Bangor Golden Age???

@Bumjuelo3492 said:

Crosseyed and Painless from PNC is for sure the number 2 to the Tahoe Tweezer

Agreed!

bill graham jim and rock n roll are neck and neck for the number one spot imo. and the Gorge Sally should def be on this list. cmon now

Of-course you have your right to your opinion, but if you put anything ahead of the Tahoe Tweezer...you are just wrong.

Direct correlation between recent western leg and high per capita placement in the hierarchy listed here? The band warms up as they work into the tour. As a result, by the time they hit the Gorge, the grove is set. Then, jams follow. Of course, the stats will shift like soil over the Bay Area's faults, but for now, Gorge, Tahoe and BGCA highlights stand out. SPAC Split is close to my heart, but there are many highlights to be found across the map: MPP, Alpharetta, Chicago N3! Cripee, criminee. That last night of Chitown was truly the reward for beleaguered soldiers. For those who had been N3-only-Chicago phans, there was only one come-down cloud waiting later that next morning: dawn. Blather, blather, blah . . .

@newbornelph said:

Where's the Bangor Golden Age???

You can add it to the list!

Boy, the Alpharetta Chalkdust sure is a comer. Is that because Miner tweeted about it? I can't remember it to save my fucking life.

And while I love the shit out of Vultures, and was so glad to hear it then, and even like it a lot through headphones... still...

BTW, then I'll shut up. PLEASE tell us here if you like this concept and want to see it continue, or think it blows and want us to KUS. But do know that we have some genuinely warped ideas for keeping it fresh; there will be plenty of straight-up Phish nerd triviabowl style shit now and again, but not week after week. We're gonna keep it light and fun.

You can also shoot me suggestions for topics via PM. I promise we will credit you if and when we run your suggestion. Thanks, folks.

Love this idea, keepin it nerdy. Thanks admins.

I absolutely love this concept. However, it's becoming clear that the majority of people must be deaf.

The only one I was at was the HollyHood. I've probably listened to it 8 or 9 times. I can't find many flaws...it's a really great extended jam that came out of nowhere, and a lot of folks were blown away by it. It's not Tweezer ion Tahoe, but it's the best Hood they played in a long, long time.

@AlbanyYEM said:

I absolutely love this concept. However, it's becoming clear that the majority of people must be deaf.

Here's the thing -- I am FASCINATED to see the results of this, and then try to figure out why it came out the way it did. Some of it is the Ranker UI, but most of it will be explainable by biases, it seems. Whether you went to the show and heard it live and got off, or who knows what.

But yeah, there are some way, way out there results thus far, imo.

BTW, how cool is the Ranker integration? Nice people there too. Clark, their CEO, is a huge fan.

Honestly the only thing that makes sense to me here is the Tweezer at #1.

What might need a tweak is that you can vote more than once, though.

@AlbanyYEM said:

Honestly the only thing that makes sense to me here is the Tweezer at #1.

Not sure I agree. The C&P Crosseyed is my #2 and it currently sits at #3, which is pretty close.

@AlbanyYEM said:

What might need a tweak is that you can vote more than once, though.

It's intentionally not a "one vote" model. It's more of a "hot or not" thing. You can either say yes, or no, or I abstain. That's just how the tool is designed to work and compute.

It seems sort of crazy that Toronto Bowie is so low-rated, but maybe that's because it's not a Type 2 jam.

That would suck because it's still really spine-tingling.

SPAC Tweezer Reprise 7/6/13

I'm really quite interested at how high the Gorge Undermind is ranked - not because I don't think it's a great jam, but because it's ahead of what I would consider are the real heavy hitters of the tour (BGCA Jim, either MPP mega-jam, PNC Crosseyed). I wonder if it's because it dipped into darkness in a way not a lot of jams have done so far this year - BGCA Jim, which is right behind, did as well.

@bertoletdown, I strongly suggest you give the Alpharetta Chalk Dust another listen. Yes, it's under 10 minutes long, but it's as mellifluous and beautiful in that 10 minutes as the Dick's version from last year, and I do not say that lightly. It's the highlight of a really great set. I agree with you that the Toronto Bowie deserves to be higher - I like it better than the Toronto Disease.

The competition has been pretty fierce as far as jams go this year, which I think says something about the year's quality. I don't disagree with the overall theme of the poll, though, which is essentially that the West Coast leg was probably stronger on balance (whatever that means) than the East Coast, at least in terms of highlights. Both legs boast very good, consistent shows, with a few truly great ones sprinkled in (MPP2, Jones Beach, BGCA3, Tahoe2, both Gorge shows, Chicago3). It's been a really great year, and the best may still be to come.

@bertoletdown

When I posted, the order was different. Lotta movement on the board! Tweezer, then PNC is my 1 and 2. Now I see the PNC is down to 4. Seriously this is like horse racing. Undermind seems a little high. Truly enjoyed the Jim, though. Hood seems way too high. Chalkdust, really? Vultures? Slave? All just my opinion of course but these are my head scratchers.

@n00b100 said:

I'm really quite interested at how high the Gorge Undermind is ranked - not because I don't think it's a great jam, but because it's ahead of what I would consider are the real heavy hitters of the tour (BGCA Jim, either MPP mega-jam, PNC Crosseyed). I wonder if it's because it dipped into darkness in a way not a lot of jams have done so far this year - BGCA Jim, which is right behind, did as well.

@bertoletdown, I strongly suggest you give the Alpharetta Chalk Dust another listen. Yes, it's under 10 minutes long, but it's as mellifluous and beautiful in that 10 minutes as the Dick's version from last year, and I do not say that lightly. It's the highlight of a really great set. I agree with you that the Toronto Bowie deserves to be higher - I like it better than the Toronto Disease.

The competition has been pretty fierce as far as jams go this year, which I think says something about the year's quality. I don't disagree with the overall theme of the poll, though, which is essentially that the West Coast leg was probably stronger on balance (whatever that means) than the East Coast, at least in terms of highlights. Both legs boast very good, consistent shows, with a few truly great ones sprinkled in (MPP2, Jones Beach, BGCA3, Tahoe2, both Gorge shows, Chicago3). It's been a really great year, and the best may still be to come.

Gonna totally give that Chalk Dust another listen tonight. It seems like I sleep on at least one good jam every tour because my ears weren't open to it the first time around, and maybe this is that one for me this go-round.

i think there shud of been a song from each venue on the list....give bangor @ least some love..

@phunky58 said:

bill graham jim and rock n roll are neck and neck for the number one spot imo. and the Gorge Sally should def be on this list. cmon now

I'm adding this now. You are right. I saw 2 Gorge and 2 BGCA. Sally was a standout.

Okay, yeah, that Alpharetta Chalk Dust is really strong.

song combos should qualify. sometimes a jam crosses song boundaries. for instance, last year's x-eyed> light> sally> x-eyed at BGCA was the highlight of the summer for me. for this year, how about the energy> jim> carini at BG? that to me was one big jam and rivals the tweezer. just my thoughts.

Love the ranker concept here thanks for doing it. Main comment is on the UI as presenting the consensus rank first sets bias. It would work better IMO if you started with unranked variables in some order like byDate or alpha. Then we drag & drop our selections into ranked list. Only after you submit are consensus ranks viewable. ESPN.com's SportsNation does many of these type polls with that method.

As for the list surprised to see so many of the last shows on top and not one from Chicago. My favorite jam this tour was Tweezer > Sand > Carini from SPAC2 or the entire 2nd set at GORGE1.

here's my two cents:
Bangor - Antelope and Hood
SPAC 1 - Light (noted); honorable mention to 46 Days-> Steam
SPAC 2 - Split (which is listed incorrectly up top) and the Sand> Carini is super funky
SPAC 3 - Ghost, Piper
PNC - Corsseyed
JB - Bowie (best jam of the night imo) and then the R&R through Cities
MPP 1 - Maze, Split, DWD, Hood (BEST HOOD OF 2013 imo), YEM
MPP 2 - Stash (best jam of the night), ScentOAM, It's Ice (best of tour), Light-> Boogie
Alph 1 - R&R-> HB-> Makisupa
Aplh 2 - Energy-> Fluff
Chi 1 -
Chi 2 - Mike's Them Groove, Piper, Slave
Chi 3 - Ghost
Toronto - DWD
Gorge 1 - Bowie
Gorge 2 - the entire second set
Tahoe - Gin, Golden Age, Ghost
Tahoe 2 - THE Tweezer
BGCA - Sand, Seven Below
BGCA 2 - R&R and Slave
BGCA 3 - Divided, Jim, Bowie
Hollywood - Hood

This is an absolutely smoking poll!

So here's some more work for you guys, but it might be fun. Obviously, you could do the same thing for best shows which could get heated in a good way. But just to make sure some first set nuggets don't get lost in the mix, you could maybe do a separate rating for best first set jams. I think MPP Stash wins hands down, but there are some great Bowies (It's Ice, etc) and Vultures would be in a fairer grouping.

What's the reason for a "thumbs down" icon? It just creates negativity when it has no place in rating whether you liked a jam or not. And especially since these are all coming from the same tour and are part of a "best of" list, it's hardly believable that people would actively dislike one of these jams.

I think rating the jams is a fun activity but adding in the negative ratings is unnecessary.

@Hose_jam said:

What's the reason for a "thumbs down" icon? It just creates negativity when it has no place in rating whether you liked a jam or not. And especially since these are all coming from the same tour and are part of a "best of" list, it's hardly believable that people would actively dislike one of these jams.

I think rating the jams is a fun activity but adding in the negative ratings is unnecessary.

I'm pretty sure the thumbs down is to move the particular jam up and down on the rankings, and not necessarily a referendum on the jam itself.

@n00b100 said:

@Hose_jam said:

What's the reason for a "thumbs down" icon? It just creates negativity when it has no place in rating whether you liked a jam or not. And especially since these are all coming from the same tour and are part of a "best of" list, it's hardly believable that people would actively dislike one of these jams.

I think rating the jams is a fun activity but adding in the negative ratings is unnecessary.

I'm pretty sure the thumbs down is to move the particular jam up and down on the rankings, and not necessarily a referendum on the jam itself.

agreed

@n00b100 said:

@Hose_jam said:

What's the reason for a "thumbs down" icon? It just creates negativity when it has no place in rating whether you liked a jam or not. And especially since these are all coming from the same tour and are part of a "best of" list, it's hardly believable that people would actively dislike one of these jams.

I think rating the jams is a fun activity but adding in the negative ratings is unnecessary.

I'm pretty sure the thumbs down is to move the particular jam up and down on the rankings, and not necessarily a referendum on the jam itself.

why not just have a positive tally? Better yet, award a point system...rank top 5 jams, top one gets 8 points, second best gets 6 points, etc. Not trying to be overly criticle, just little basic, statistically speaking.

my vote just put that pnc crosseyed up to #2 where it belongs

for my money it's all about bill graham Jim and rock n roll at the top.

this is pointless, something will happen at dicks that blows all this outta the water!

Crosseyed should win.

I just want to go on record as saying I thought that the Hood jam at MPP 1st night was pretty sick.

Hi all - I'm the founder of Ranker and as @bertoletdown says, I'm also a Phan (fave shows attended: Big Cypress, Festival 8, Long Beach 2012, Ventura 97/98, Vegas 98). To be completely honest, when I just now saw this live and the huge amounts of votes and comments in the first 20 hours, i got a *little* choked up . I launched Ranker about 4 years ago and this was exactly the kind of thing I envisioned - we've since built a growing, successful site but running an internet startup takes up so much of my time that I never have time to make content like this - really granular things that mean so much to a community, and where Ranker can hopefully really add value. We have 1000s of great rankings, but things like Best NBA Players Ever Funniest Movies In History just don't go as deep and unique as something like this. So thank you.
To address some specific comments for future lists - we could potentially offer a version that just has upvotes and no downvotes (personally I prefer including downvotes, but I understand the argument against it). It's something that we've already comped out and were planning to offer at some point. In the very very near term, maybe as soon as next week, we'll be launching a version that you can "rerank" from and a link to your personal lists would save to the widget on phish.net.
Oh and btw my personal 2cents on the list - I haven't had time to listen to the majority of these jams yet, but I do agree that the Holly Hood (the only show of this tour I caught), excellent as it was, is probably a bit high. But of course that's what makes opinion-based rankings so interesting . . .

Where's possum???

@jarpua said:

Crosseyed should win.

I just want to go on record as saying I thought that the Hood jam at MPP 1st night was pretty sick.

best Hood of the year....Holly Hood was long and some few fire moments but the MPP Hood was tight from start to finish and had that gospel/praise the lord peak at the end...

That MPP Hood should be a top ten when it's all said and done.

@bertoletdown said:

@AlbanyYEM said:

What might need a tweak is that you can vote more than once, though.

It's intentionally not a "one vote" model. It's more of a "hot or not" thing. You can either say yes, or no, or I abstain. That's just how the tool is designed to work and compute.

But is it kosher to say "yes yes yes yes yes" and "no no no no no no"?

@bertoletdown said:

BTW, then I'll shut up. PLEASE tell us here if you like this concept and want to see it continue, or think it blows and want us to KUS. But do know that we have some genuinely warped ideas for keeping it fresh; there will be plenty of straight-up Phish nerd triviabowl style shit now and again, but not week after week. We're gonna keep it light and fun.

You can also shoot me suggestions for topics via PM. I promise we will credit you if and when we run your suggestion. Thanks, folks.

Hell, yeah this is great fun. Only problem I have with it (and it's not really a problem just a point to make), is that a best-of jam list doesn't account for the FLOW....y'know I thought set two of Gorge the 1st to be among the best overall sets in recent memory yet there wasn't a single individual jam that merits top ten on the list. Perhaps another category for best "Surrender to the Flow" ? I dunno.

@bertoletdown said:

It seems sort of crazy that Toronto Bowie is so low-rated, but maybe that's because it's not a Type 2 jam.

That would suck because it's still really spine-tingling.

Agreed. The Jones Beach Rock & Roll and Bowie to end the 1st set were also epic.

BTW....Tahoeweezer is #1 on the ranking for all of 3.0. So....love the C&P from NJ too but it's not in the same league. Tahoeweezer is the king, everything else is shadow.

Naturally there will be a lot of variance between fan favorites but how can ANYONE not think that Tahoe Tweezer was the far and away winner?! ...I know it is buuuuut so far 39 people have given it a thumbs down!?!?!?! WTF?! If you're not blown away by it I question how much you really love this band...

Just gonna say this... length of song does not always equal best jam. Trey can wave his guitar feedback around in the air for an hour while Fishman drums on Mike's bass and it wouldn't necessarily be the best jam of the season just because it was 60 minutes long.
That being said, I thoroughly enjoy how they are "going out there" again and are really polishing up their musicianship from tight 7-minute possums with huge peaks to the Chalkdust of Alpharetta (which was sick).
Unfortunately though, the only show I was physically at this Summer was Alpharetta... and I must say I had a fucking fantastic time. I loved the Frost. Page absolutely laid down an AMAZING Army of One at that show as well. I loved the seague into Heartbreaker after Rock & Roll. The Chalkdust (again) was sick, not to mention the awesome time I had with good friends that I don't get to see but once a year.

@bertoletdown said:

Boy, the Alpharetta Chalkdust sure is a comer. Is that because Miner tweeted about it? I can't remember it to save my fucking life.

Listen again, my favorite jam of the whole tour. Even at under 10 minutes!

What a fantastic community this looks like! (new here)

Get "The Jerry" on Organic Cotton for $24

I'm just going to say it, because I know there are people out there who agree, even though most disagree: the Tahoe Tweezer was long and great, but there were a number of shorter jams that went better places. <now commence the plethora of thumbs-down votes to this scribe>

@skr213 said:

I'm just going to say it, because I know there are people out there who agree, even though most disagree: the Tahoe Tweezer was long and great, but there were a number of shorter jams that went better places. <now commence the plethora of thumbs-down votes to this scribe>

Here's my response (to which I imagine the most that disagreed with you will agree with):

There are shorter jams that may have gone to better places *in particular segments* than the Tahoe Tweezer went to *in particular segments*. The first Type II sequence in the MPP Stash, for instance, is as good as anything in that Tahoe Tweezer. What I would suggest makes the Tahoe Tweezer stand out is that they played at a level of excellence at or near the best of what was played this year, for a protracted period of time, over several different segments that were played at said level of excellence at or near the best of what was played this year, without flagging or becoming rote or uninteresting. This is not an easy thing to do. I'm never going to penalize the band for playing 15 minute jams if those 15 minute jams are awesome (or even 10 minute jams if those 10 minute jams are awesome - again, the Alpharetta Chalk Dust), but I can't see how a 36 minute jam that never fails to delight for all 36 minutes shouldn't get *some* kind of bonus. I wouldn't give that bonus to every other 30+ (or 20+) minute jam, that is for sure.

I take deep umbrage with the folks above saying nothing else this year is in the same league of the Tahoe Tweezer - the PNC Crosseyed, BGCA Jim, and MPP Light and Stash (at the *very least*) approach the Tahoe Tweezer. But when you take in the way that several marvelous jam sequences were so seamlessly molded together into one tremendous jam...I just don't see how the question of jam of the year can have any other answer. And, frankly, the fact that there *are* people that disagree (sometimes vociferously so) that the Tahoe Tweezer is the jam of the year tells me everything I need to know about the quality of 2013.

Notice that Sand which produced probably the best jam of 2012 is not on here...they kinda abandoned it as a jam vehicle.

@n00b100 said:

@skr213 said:

I'm just going to say it, because I know there are people out there who agree, even though most disagree: the Tahoe Tweezer was long and great, but there were a number of shorter jams that went better places. <now commence the plethora of thumbs-down votes to this scribe>

Here's my response (to which I imagine the most that disagreed with you will agree with):

There are shorter jams that may have gone to better places *in particular segments* than the Tahoe Tweezer went to *in particular segments*. The first Type II sequence in the MPP Stash, for instance, is as good as anything in that Tahoe Tweezer. What I would suggest makes the Tahoe Tweezer stand out is that they played at a level of excellence at or near the best of what was played this year, for a protracted period of time, over several different segments that were played at said level of excellence at or near the best of what was played this year, without flagging or becoming rote or uninteresting. This is not an easy thing to do. I'm never going to penalize the band for playing 15 minute jams if those 15 minute jams are awesome (or even 10 minute jams if those 10 minute jams are awesome - again, the Alpharetta Chalk Dust), but I can't see how a 36 minute jam that never fails to delight for all 36 minutes shouldn't get *some* kind of bonus. I wouldn't give that bonus to every other 30+ (or 20+) minute jam, that is for sure.

I take deep umbrage with the folks above saying nothing else this year is in the same league of the Tahoe Tweezer - the PNC Crosseyed, BGCA Jim, and MPP Light and Stash (at the *very least*) approach the Tahoe Tweezer. But when you take in the way that several marvelous jam sequences were so seamlessly molded together into one tremendous jam...I just don't see how the question of jam of the year can have any other answer. And, frankly, the fact that there *are* people that disagree (sometimes vociferously so) that the Tahoe Tweezer is the jam of the year tells me everything I need to know about the quality of 2013.

You're taking "umbrage" with the fact that I am saying that nothing is in the same class as the Tahoe Tweezer, and then after taking umbrage you proceed to make a very succinct and compelling argument supporting my assertion. Interesting the tangled web we weave over this stuff.

1) This new feature is fantastic and I am sure will get lots of interaction from the community (both good and bad - let the heated arguments continue!)
2) I agree with @AlbanyYEM that there should be a separate poll for first set jams

@FACTSAREUSELESS said:

@n00b100 said:

@skr213 said:

I'm just going to say it, because I know there are people out there who agree, even though most disagree: the Tahoe Tweezer was long and great, but there were a number of shorter jams that went better places. <now commence the plethora of thumbs-down votes to this scribe>

Here's my response (to which I imagine the most that disagreed with you will agree with):

There are shorter jams that may have gone to better places *in particular segments* than the Tahoe Tweezer went to *in particular segments*. The first Type II sequence in the MPP Stash, for instance, is as good as anything in that Tahoe Tweezer. What I would suggest makes the Tahoe Tweezer stand out is that they played at a level of excellence at or near the best of what was played this year, for a protracted period of time, over several different segments that were played at said level of excellence at or near the best of what was played this year, without flagging or becoming rote or uninteresting. This is not an easy thing to do. I'm never going to penalize the band for playing 15 minute jams if those 15 minute jams are awesome (or even 10 minute jams if those 10 minute jams are awesome - again, the Alpharetta Chalk Dust), but I can't see how a 36 minute jam that never fails to delight for all 36 minutes shouldn't get *some* kind of bonus. I wouldn't give that bonus to every other 30+ (or 20+) minute jam, that is for sure.

I take deep umbrage with the folks above saying nothing else this year is in the same league of the Tahoe Tweezer - the PNC Crosseyed, BGCA Jim, and MPP Light and Stash (at the *very least*) approach the Tahoe Tweezer. But when you take in the way that several marvelous jam sequences were so seamlessly molded together into one tremendous jam...I just don't see how the question of jam of the year can have any other answer. And, frankly, the fact that there *are* people that disagree (sometimes vociferously so) that the Tahoe Tweezer is the jam of the year tells me everything I need to know about the quality of 2013.

You're taking "umbrage" with the fact that I am saying that nothing is in the same class as the Tahoe Tweezer, and then after taking umbrage you proceed to make a very succinct and compelling argument supporting my assertion. Interesting the tangled web we weave over this stuff.

Well, there's no quibble from me that the Tahoe Tweezer is the jam of the year; my quibble is that it's closer than you seem to think it is. Shrug.

@ClarkBenson said:

Hi all - I'm the founder of Ranker and as @bertoletdown says, I'm also a Phan (fave shows attended: Big Cypress, Festival 8, Long Beach 2012, Ventura 97/98, Vegas 98). To be completely honest, when I just now saw this live and the huge amounts of votes and comments in the first 20 hours, i got a *little* choked up . I launched Ranker about 4 years ago and this was exactly the kind of thing I envisioned - we've since built a growing, successful site but running an internet startup takes up so much of my time that I never have time to make content like this - really granular things that mean so much to a community, and where Ranker can hopefully really add value. We have 1000s of great rankings, but things like Best NBA Players Ever Funniest Movies In History just don't go as deep and unique as something like this. So thank you.
To address some specific comments for future lists - we could potentially offer a version that just has upvotes and no downvotes (personally I prefer including downvotes, but I understand the argument against it). It's something that we've already comped out and were planning to offer at some point. In the very very near term, maybe as soon as next week, we'll be launching a version that you can "rerank" from and a link to your personal lists would save to the widget on phish.net.
Oh and btw my personal 2cents on the list - I haven't had time to listen to the majority of these jams yet, but I do agree that the Holly Hood (the only show of this tour I caught), excellent as it was, is probably a bit high. But of course that's what makes opinion-based rankings so interesting . . .

Hello creator of ranker. I think this is a very cool idea, but I honestly do not understand how to use your program. I would like to participate in this feature, but I do not get the point of thumbs down. Do I thumbs something down if I don't think it is in the right place? For example, I do agree that Tahoe Tweezer is #1 and PNC Crosseyed is likely #2. However, I do not think the Hollywood Hood is the #3 best jam of the summer. It's really awesome and it was MIND BLOWING to watch what CK5 did during the jam, but it is not the third best type II jam of the summer. Do I thumb it down then?

So bottom line is, you're my only hope clark benson-kenobi. Help me! I promise I am not slow :-)

Side note: @FACTSAREUSELESS knows whats up. Gorge Night 1 set II is the best set of the summer from top to bottom. Amazing flow and energy abounded in that place. Perfect night. Also, Tahoe Tweezer is king of 3.0. Bethel Waves Sound Check is Queen.

Love this.

Mandatory knee-jerk reaction to current ranking: Bangor Golden Age should definitely be up there, and the Toronto Disease should be Top 5 easily. No idea how the Hollywood Hood is #3.

I want to play

n00b100: first, I respect your position and admire that you've studied Phish very heavily in a relatively short time. But I disagree that the Tahoe Tweezer was played at a high level over the whole jam. I don't want to bash it - it was great, I love it, and it's fantastic etc. etc. etc. However, I don't have the same admiration as you and others. So it's great, but I think others were better (and there were a few in 2012 that were waaay better) IMO. The first time it gets really interesting to me is around the 16 minute mark, particularly what Mike and Fish were doing. Prior to that it's a good jam, but didn't go anywhere particularly special. Let me emphasize that I love this jam around the 16 minute mark. Love it. But then it doesn't really go where it could from there and winds up fizzling and really floundering for a while around the 20 minute mark. It then goes into a really nice building segment around minute 22, but then goes into sort a simplistic call-and-response segment (the wooos) around 26, etc. Now, don't get me wrong - this is a live band, and for those at the show, this call-and-response must have been really really awesome and that's the most important thing. However, as a piece of music to stand the test of time, I don't think that whole call-and-response segment thrives. To put it differently, it was a 10 *in the moment* but maybe just a 6 *when listened to for posterity*. So, for my money the Crosseyed at PNC and the Energy> Jim> Carini at BGCA (and probably one or two others) were actually more quality jams. But taste is taste and I fully respect that what might resonate with one, might not resonate in the same way with others. I love that we can debate these things and still respect each other and share in our love of the music. We're really lucky to be having these debates in 2013, when it all could have gone away for good back in 2004.

@mattyk said:

Naturally there will be a lot of variance between fan favorites but how can ANYONE not think that Tahoe Tweezer was the far and away winner?! ...I know it is buuuuut so far 39 people have given it a thumbs down!?!?!?! WTF?! If you're not blown away by it I question how much you really love this band...

There are probably YouTube videos of a newborn sleeping next to a golden retriever puppy that have 1000 thumbs down. Can't take it too seriously - it is the Internet after all. But it is fun!

@n00b100 said:

@FACTSAREUSELESS said:

@n00b100 said:

@skr213 said:

I'm just going to say it, because I know there are people out there who agree, even though most disagree: the Tahoe Tweezer was long and great, but there were a number of shorter jams that went better places. <now commence the plethora of thumbs-down votes to this scribe>

Here's my response (to which I imagine the most that disagreed with you will agree with):

There are shorter jams that may have gone to better places *in particular segments* than the Tahoe Tweezer went to *in particular segments*. The first Type II sequence in the MPP Stash, for instance, is as good as anything in that Tahoe Tweezer. What I would suggest makes the Tahoe Tweezer stand out is that they played at a level of excellence at or near the best of what was played this year, for a protracted period of time, over several different segments that were played at said level of excellence at or near the best of what was played this year, without flagging or becoming rote or uninteresting. This is not an easy thing to do. I'm never going to penalize the band for playing 15 minute jams if those 15 minute jams are awesome (or even 10 minute jams if those 10 minute jams are awesome - again, the Alpharetta Chalk Dust), but I can't see how a 36 minute jam that never fails to delight for all 36 minutes shouldn't get *some* kind of bonus. I wouldn't give that bonus to every other 30+ (or 20+) minute jam, that is for sure.

I take deep umbrage with the folks above saying nothing else this year is in the same league of the Tahoe Tweezer - the PNC Crosseyed, BGCA Jim, and MPP Light and Stash (at the *very least*) approach the Tahoe Tweezer. But when you take in the way that several marvelous jam sequences were so seamlessly molded together into one tremendous jam...I just don't see how the question of jam of the year can have any other answer. And, frankly, the fact that there *are* people that disagree (sometimes vociferously so) that the Tahoe Tweezer is the jam of the year tells me everything I need to know about the quality of 2013.

You're taking "umbrage" with the fact that I am saying that nothing is in the same class as the Tahoe Tweezer, and then after taking umbrage you proceed to make a very succinct and compelling argument supporting my assertion. Interesting the tangled web we weave over this stuff.

Well, there's no quibble from me that the Tahoe Tweezer is the jam of the year; my quibble is that it's closer than you seem to think it is. Shrug.

Details details.....I understand. Just think it's funny how meticulously we split hairs on all of it....I include myself in that. It's amazing that the boys are able to be at all spontaneous given the level of expectation and anticipation we build up for them. My PERSONAL favorite jams of the summer was Piper> Slave from Northerly and Stash from MPP, but then I LOVE Stash. Tweezer is still king in a landslide.

Keeping things simple as far as what must be heard, and its importance in the overall catalog, here's my top10(ppl need to start taking notice of what a movement of music is, and not just slash it at the > My list seeks to amend the disrespect that seems to have been given to the Merriweather shows and CHItown Harpua(the message couldnt be more prescient). Both night 1(entire set1 and Hood> Architect) and night 2(Stash> Mule, Golden Age, Light) were incredibly good shows with no monsoons just hose!

1) Tahoeezer
2) Gorge2 - Disease > Undermind > Space
3) PNC - Crosseyed / Chicago3 Harpua> 'The Right Way'> Mike(!!)Narration(too historic and the message is too important to leave it off or lower down)
4) MPP1 - Harry Hood > Architect (oh, and songs Destiny Unbound > Yarmouth Road from set 1, not sure why ppl havent been discussing this amazing set more).
5) Chicago3 - Energy> Ghost> Lizards
6) BGCA3 - Energy> Jim
7) SPAC2 - Split Open and Melt, Carini> Architect
8) Chicago2 - Golden> Waves> PIPER(best 10 minutes of tour outside of tahoeezer)> Slave
9) Alpharetta2 - Drowned thru Fluffhead - the lightning storm combined with the music i will never forget.
10) MPP2 Stash, Scent (both INCREDIBLE versions, Merriweather has been underated all summer IMHO, as far as weather and vibes go, best east coast shows hands down. I keep returning to set1, MPP1, ABSOLUTE HOSE, LISTEN TO it for god's sake.

@skr213 u hit it right on the head with ur assessment of the Tahoe tweezer imo. I thought the bill graham Jim and Rock n Roll were definitely better. along with a few others. there was just a lack of cohesion in that tweezer. just cuz it's long as shit doesn't mean it's epic. and this is coming from someone who would do anything for 30+ min jams;

@nakedclothing it's a great community -- why spam it?

@phunky58 said:

@skr213 u hit it right on the head with ur assessment of the Tahoe tweezer imo. I thought the bill graham Jim and Rock n Roll were definitely better. along with a few others. there was just a lack of cohesion in that tweezer. just cuz it's long as shit doesn't mean it's epic. and this is coming from someone who would do anything for 30+ min jams;

Well, you certainly have every right to believe that and no one can tell you otherwise. All I know is that I never thought they would ever again play a Tweezer that would come close to the orgasm of 2/28/03 (one of the compendium's all-time winners and my favorite piece of Phish ever), and yet the Tahoe Tweezer rivals it at every level.

I think there is a little bit of backlash going on here as many of us prefer the model of set-flow trumping long epic jams followed by a cool-down song, followed by another jam. I believe some of you are going out of your way to denigrate the Tweezer in order to fluff up some other moments of the tour that you believe are being neglected. That's a mistake, I think. You may indeed be in love with certain other moments of the tour, and even prefer them, but you cannot honestly deny the historical and musical significance of the Tahoe Tweezer without losing credibility.

Just saying.....and this is from a person who considered Gorge1 to be the best of the tour, which was flow-based. Let's keep things in perspective.

@ClarkBenson said:

Hi all - I'm the founder of Ranker and as @bertoletdown says, I'm also a Phan (fave shows attended: Big Cypress, Festival 8, Long Beach 2012, Ventura 97/98, Vegas 98). To be completely honest, when I just now saw this live and the huge amounts of votes and comments in the first 20 hours, i got a *little* choked up . I launched Ranker about 4 years ago and this was exactly the kind of thing I envisioned - we've since built a growing, successful site but running an internet startup takes up so much of my time that I never have time to make content like this - really granular things that mean so much to a community, and where Ranker can hopefully really add value. We have 1000s of great rankings, but things like Best NBA Players Ever Funniest Movies In History just don't go as deep and unique as something like this. So thank you.
To address some specific comments for future lists - we could potentially offer a version that just has upvotes and no downvotes (personally I prefer including downvotes, but I understand the argument against it). It's something that we've already comped out and were planning to offer at some point. In the very very near term, maybe as soon as next week, we'll be launching a version that you can "rerank" from and a link to your personal lists would save to the widget on phish.net.
Oh and btw my personal 2cents on the list - I haven't had time to listen to the majority of these jams yet, but I do agree that the Holly Hood (the only show of this tour I caught), excellent as it was, is probably a bit high. But of course that's what makes opinion-based rankings so interesting . . .

When i see the connection...

To briefly address @757Phan and a few other comments about the Ranker voting system - it's funny, the first incarnation of Ranker (before we had a widget-version) was all about "reranks" and had no vote buttons at all. But we found the addition of the vote buttons scaled participation immensely, and also tended to make our rankings perhaps a bit more democratic (because it allows more casual participation). The ESPN-style reranking can work well for sports lists particularly because they tend to be more finite sets of things that everyone looking at the list has a strong opinion on. Offering a rerank-only version of a Ranker is something that we could do relatively painlessly, indeed it is on our to-do list, tho not at the top. A topic like this might indeed be better served by that. On ranker.com, a lot of our lists are "ultimate lists" - lists that combine both votes and reranks about equally in the algorithm. We do not currently support these in the widget, mainly because when reranks are added to the algo, eyeballing the list and looking at the votes just seems odd and brings up questions (here's an example on one of my personal faves on Ranker.com - Rock Stars Whose Untimely Deaths Left The Most Great Music Behind - notice for example that by eyeballing the votes, Kurt Cobain should be below SRV, Bonzo, and others - but people who rerank the list tend to put him really high (he's my #2 behind Jimi). As an aside about this list, i'm saddened how low Jerry is, as I feel that if had he lived a longer life he would have been like the blues and jazz greats (I know, '94 and '95 were not great examples), but I have found that there is a lot of anti-Dead bias out there in general rock-fan land (some classic rock and metal heads also harbor IMHO outside hatred towards Nirvana and certainly Phish as well). Phew, but i digress - anyhow we are working on some changes to also allow Ultimate Lists to work as widgets and that might work better for this particular community.

A few more quick points - first, this list is interesting in that there is a huge level of voter participation @bertoletdown says over 50% of visitors have voted), but only about a 3-1 votes/voters ratio, which is quite low by Ranker standards. My guess is that many of the visitors to this thread caught one or two shows, and have maybe listened to a few other jams, and therefore wouldn't be likely at all to do a proper rerank of a "top 10" or whatever length, the way a hardcore tour head can. After all, there are probably 5+ hours of jams on this list. I have a feeling that rankings like these will continue to grow over time - i personally plan to check out all of these jams at some point when i'm working on a Sunday, and vote on them all accordingly, or rerank at that time. So the voting interface allows more casual participation, which we feel strongly is a good thing.

Lastly, there's the question of "what are you voting on" ie should you be thumbs-downing something you think is too high on the list, or are you thumbs-downing it because it doesn't belong on the list at all? That is a very good question, and honestly the answer is - voting is in the eye of the beholder. Myself and my team have spent many many hours wrestling with this question, and the reality is, this interface is used for many different types of rankings on just about every topic on the planet. We decided - after a lot of testing - to decide not to define this. You may well feel this is a bit of a cop-out, and that would be fair criticism, and I'm more than happy to hear other thoughts about this topic, though I probably won't respond in the next week as I'm taking my first week of vacation in 5 years, ha.

As a closing thought to what is now a ridiculously long post (thx for listening), please feel free to keep the constructive comments coming on this thread or hopefully future Rankings. I think opinion-based rankings are the best possible "filters" for topics like this and have put everything I have into building a tool to support this and just want to make it the best it can be.

Bangor antelope is the least deserving of the list IMO , but I'm pretty happy with the rankings

After more consideration I still think what @clarkbenson calls the "rerank" system would result in the most true ranks. Understand with a large set of variables it might be difficult to scale but starting with a blank slate would be best. In this topic's case Tahoe Tweezer would be down on the list (if it was defaulted to chrono) where you'd have to find it (not having it appear as the top item upon first view). The basic idea is that you start with two (2) columns: left side with all the choices, right side with a blank slate. The UI allows you to drag/drop or click to top and then you fine tune the ranks via drag/drop, and then finally you submit. Here's a good example from ESPN on college football rankings:

Rank: College Football Preseason Top 25 (ESPN.com)

I'm sure the good pholks at Ranker have thought of this but just wanted to post here. Thanks for considering.

@andrewrose said:

Love this.

Mandatory knee-jerk reaction to current ranking: Bangor Golden Age should definitely be up there, and the Toronto Disease should be Top 5 easily. No idea how the Hollywood Hood is #3.

Lots of people dismissed Toronto because it didn't supposedly live up to the pre-show hype, I think. I haven't heard the show yet myself because according to reviews given, there were better shows before and after it. A lot of folks just haven't heard the jam, myself included. Thanks for the heads up on it.

Im definitely not going out of my way to put down the Tahoe tweezer. I thought it was good but definitely not epic like every1 seems to think it is. It was just all over the place at a lot of times, yet very good at others. And like I said before I live for 20+ min jams and 4-5 song sets. Jus one man's opinion.

Can someone explain the math to me? Harry Hood, LA is 7, even though mathematically it received more popular votes against negative votes for all but one song. What am I missing in Ranker's system?

@phunky58 said:

Im definitely not going out of my way to put down the Tahoe tweezer. I thought it was good but definitely not epic like every1 seems to think it is. It was just all over the place at a lot of times, yet very good at others. And like I said before I live for 20+ min jams and 4-5 song sets. Jus one man's opinion.

Hmmmmm....if by all over the place you mean there are at least five distinct transitions into new movements of the same jam, then yes, I'll buy that. So in that case I'm all in for jams that are all over the place.

@Just_Ivy said:

This is an absolutely smoking poll!

Lol. I see what you did.

@phunky58 said:

Im definitely not going out of my way to put down the Tahoe tweezer. I thought it was good but definitely not epic like every1 seems to think it is. It was just all over the place at a lot of times, yet very good at others. And like I said before I live for 20+ min jams and 4-5 song sets. Jus one man's opinion.

Totally agree. I was beginning to think I was the only one. Long does not always equal great.

@FACTSAREUSELESS said:

@andrewrose said:

Love this.

Mandatory knee-jerk reaction to current ranking: Bangor Golden Age should definitely be up there, and the Toronto Disease should be Top 5 easily. No idea how the Hollywood Hood is #3.

Lots of people dismissed Toronto because it didn't supposedly live up to the pre-show hype, I think. I haven't heard the show yet myself because according to reviews given, there were better shows before and after it. A lot of folks just haven't heard the jam, myself included. Thanks for the heads up on it.

I was kind of rough on the show overall immediately following it for similar reasons, I think (though I do still think it suffers from some low energy mid second set). But I think it much more highly listening back on the strength of both the Disease (18+ minutes) and Bowie, which are as strong as most of the stuff currently ranked in the Top 10 here. I put the Toronto Disease on par with the PNC C&P, and the Bowie is no slouch. It's in the same vein as the MPP Stash sound-wise. If you haven't heard the either of these jams, do yourself a monster favour and check them out.

Quite happy that MPP Hood was added.

@Ravinus said:

@phunky58 said:

Im definitely not going out of my way to put down the Tahoe tweezer. I thought it was good but definitely not epic like every1 seems to think it is. It was just all over the place at a lot of times, yet very good at others. And like I said before I live for 20+ min jams and 4-5 song sets. Jus one man's opinion.

Totally agree. I was beginning to think I was the only one. Long does not always equal great.

Okay, just so I understand you're *ahem* point, would the band be "all over the place" if they change from major to minor key and back? What if they played Bowie> Cities> Bowie, like at Ventura....that's kind of all over the place, isn't it? BTW, come to think of it, have you ever heard a Dark Star circa '72?

Didn't think so.

my 2 cents on the list.......it's not really a jam so I understand why it wasn't included....but if we are going to include Vultures (wtf?) then how can we not include the Slave from Northerly Island, which might be the most beautiful Slave since '97?

@FACTSAREUSELESS said:

@Ravinus said:

@phunky58 said:

Im definitely not going out of my way to put down the Tahoe tweezer. I thought it was good but definitely not epic like every1 seems to think it is. It was just all over the place at a lot of times, yet very good at others. And like I said before I live for 20+ min jams and 4-5 song sets. Jus one man's opinion.

Totally agree. I was beginning to think I was the only one. Long does not always equal great.

Okay, just so I understand you're *ahem* point, would the band be "all over the place" if they change from major to minor key and back? What if they played Bowie> Cities> Bowie, like at Ventura....that's kind of all over the place, isn't it? BTW, come to think of it, have you ever heard a Dark Star circa '72?

Didn't think so.

Thank goodness we have you to put us in our place. Please, dude. Get a grip.

@Ravinus said:

@FACTSAREUSELESS said:

@Ravinus said:

@phunky58 said:

Im definitely not going out of my way to put down the Tahoe tweezer. I thought it was good but definitely not epic like every1 seems to think it is. It was just all over the place at a lot of times, yet very good at others. And like I said before I live for 20+ min jams and 4-5 song sets. Jus one man's opinion.

Totally agree. I was beginning to think I was the only one. Long does not always equal great.

Okay, just so I understand you're *ahem* point, would the band be "all over the place" if they change from major to minor key and back? What if they played Bowie> Cities> Bowie, like at Ventura....that's kind of all over the place, isn't it? BTW, come to think of it, have you ever heard a Dark Star circa '72?

Didn't think so.

Thank goodness we have you to put us in our place. Please, dude. Get a grip.

That was funny....I'm having fun, dude. I enjoy the debate that's all. Not trying to put anyone in their place. Sorry if I sound too serious, but honestly I react that way because YOU guys sound so serious to ME. Peace.

that SPAC Split is garbage...listened to it several times now. And the Holly Hood is good but no great. I think people need to discern between a long jam with many different cycles (some of whic do not click) and a clean 10-15min jam that is tight and well spun; like the Stash from MPP or the Jim from BCGA.

Just an interesting side note I’d like to throw out there about the Tahoeweezer call and response (haven’t seen any other similar comments yet and may not?). I was incredibly fortunate to make this show coming off an amazing grinding Gorge adventure thanks to some close phriends that had extras and were jamming down to tahoe. I booked a flight from Portland and joined them.

A decent size group of us were located on the floor center stage about 100-150ft back during the show. When the call and response began we all quickly jumped on the band wagon. We however we’re all yelling “Tah” – “Hoe”. Not Woo-Woo. Suddenly everyone around us began the same and I thought it was going to take off. We all looked at each other and everyone around us emphasizing “tah” “hoe” and it spread like wildfire but fizzled just as quickly it seemed as the entire arena began to chime in. If you listen carefully to the first few responses I think it’s clear that we all really didn’t know what to yell, at least initially. By the second response set it’s more defined and unanimous. We also begrudgingly jettisoned on our efforts and joined the “woo” crowd.

So does anyone else have any interpretations to what they heard or can remember lol. I’m sure folks were yelling all kinds of different stuff. It was awesome no matter but I believe it would’ve been more fun if our little chant had taken over. Maybe the following shows/songs with “Woo’s” could have been unique to their particular venues as well.

Another interesting similar and relevant side note I’d like to mention. This was so thrilling for me and my buddy who I went with primarily due to the fact that although we did not know each other at the time we were both at the 1996 Red Rocks Hood call and response show (although planned). To get to be a part of two virgin call and responses is one of the highlights of my life. It would be awesome if maybe phish.netters initiated another fun crowd response in the future. I.E. Golden Age “Clap your hands if you think you’re in the right place” and we the fans institute a stash like clap etc???? Just an idea.

Love this and how the order has changed over the week. What a great idea.
I would compare this to all-star game voting in MLB, there are some head-scratchers for sure, regional biases, etc, but the heavy hitters are definitely there!

A question for the admin (bertoletdown) who has PNC x-eyed at #2, what criteria puts it ahead of Gorge x-eyed? I would give the edge to the Gorge version, but my bias was I was at that one, not PNC. Seven Below from BGCA is my most underrated jam from current standings, and most overrated to me looks like Hollyhood.

Bet the Dicks run nets at least 3 top tens!

So, to recap, your winners are
1) Tahoe Tweezer - 7/31...not even astronomically close
2) C&P - PNC 7/10
3) HollyHood - Hollywood 8/5
...Runaway from SF was a close 4th. Now, let's get the Fall Tour going (and Dick's, of course)

@andrewrose said:

@FACTSAREUSELESS said:

@andrewrose said:

Love this.

Mandatory knee-jerk reaction to current ranking: Bangor Golden Age should definitely be up there, and the Toronto Disease should be Top 5 easily. No idea how the Hollywood Hood is #3.

Lots of people dismissed Toronto because it didn't supposedly live up to the pre-show hype, I think. I haven't heard the show yet myself because according to reviews given, there were better shows before and after it. A lot of folks just haven't heard the jam, myself included. Thanks for the heads up on it.

I was kind of rough on the show overall immediately following it for similar reasons, I think (though I do still think it suffers from some low energy mid second set). But I think it much more highly listening back on the strength of both the Disease (18+ minutes) and Bowie, which are as strong as most of the stuff currently ranked in the Top 10 here. I put the Toronto Disease on par with the PNC C&P, and the Bowie is no slouch. It's in the same vein as the MPP Stash sound-wise. If you haven't heard the either of these jams, do yourself a monster favour and check them out.

I've listened to the show, Andrew, since I last posted and you are quite right about it. Thank you