History: Tickets to Phish shows have been available through mail order since late 1993. They were first offered in the first Doniac Schvice, for the New Year's Eve run, but only special tapers' tickets for those intending to record shows live. Tickets for regular seats have been available via mail order since since the summer of 1995, during which the entire tour was mail orderable, including some of best seats in the house, and with a (consistent) limit of two tickets per person; by the New Year's run, the mail order tickets were no longer regular tickets but special designs, often (except for Fall 1996 and some of the Summer 1997 tickets) featuring the work of Jim Pollack.
Current information: As always, refer to the official Phish site (in particular the hotline message, tourdates listings, mail order instructions, and mail-order order form) for complete and accurate mail order information. Any other source of information (particularly any web site which portends to have duplicated current information, rather than you getting the information directly from phish.com) is suspect and disputable, including the newsletters (which have on occassion had errors, have often been updated online by on-sale dates, and have occasionally -- e.g. Europe '97 -- not corresponded to or covered a tour.)
Updates: When can I expect the next mail order to be, and the next tour to be announced There's a pretty routine schedule (or at least a fairly consisten pattern) by which the announcements are made. On-sale dates (Ticketmaster and box offices) are roughly 4-6 weeks before the respective shows. Tickets-by-Mail tries to have filled mail orders returned prior to that, so guestimate that they'll shoot to be done a week early and that it'll take them two weeks or more to do it, and that they start within a week of the end of the mail order dates or roughly one week after the first mail order date. That would make the first mail order date about four weeks before the onsale date and 8-10 weeks before the show date. Mail order (and other tour information) is usually announced 1-2 weeks (if that) prior to the mail order date, or 9-11 weeks before a show date. In short Expect to hear first official details about a show 2-3 months before a show - begin planning for summer tour in May, Halloween in August, and the in late September.
FAQs: Frequently asked mail order questions -- You should always reference the official information (particularly the web site), but here are some general guides from past tours.
- Why write dates on the envelope: Shelly posted (6/7/96), "The reason that we ask you to write the shows on the outside of the envelope is to assist us in sorting mail. Thus, if our allotment of Deer Creek tickets sells out from orders postmarked on May 13 (it did), any orders postmarked later than that which are for only Deer Creek can be returned unopened. This saves time and gets them back to people more quickly. If you neglect to write the shows requested on the outside of the envelope, we are then forced to open it regardless. All such envelopes are moved to the end of the line and opened only after all correct orders."
- Postmarks: Some prefer to not only take their order to a postal clerk at the post office counter (rather than just dropping it in an out box), but also want the postal clerk to hand-stamp a postmark on their item. There is no strong reason to believe that this helps, speeds, or ensures anything about your order. Moreover, the service is no longer free (though you might get away with a helpful and/or careless clerk who doesn't charge you.) Kaz <kazdeyna@aol.com> posted (8/12/98), "Do not be alarmed if the postal clerk asks you to pay for a postmark, that is the current US postal procedure. For letters they charge $0.55 for this service. However most clerks do not strictly adhere to this rule, and will individually postmark your letter if you ask them, but you may get one who decides to follow the rules. Eitherway, the letter will have a postmark on it when you mail it no matter if the clerk stamps it, or the processing machine stamps it. It is not a big deal, it's basically for your own piece of mind...."
- Meter strips: Meter-strip postage is okay for the envelope going to Tickets-by-Mail, but you should (as the instructions specify) send stamp postage for the return, if needed. (Remember that tickets will be returned via FedEx. The SASE is only for instances where PTBM has to return some or all of your order unfilled. You can re-use the same SASE for the next mail order; some people have used the same envelope many times over for good luck.)
- No priority mail: Shelly clarified (8/25/97), "If it arrives in any size envelope other than legal size (for example, an oversize Priority Mail envelope), it will be disqualified. AND Why spend the extra postage The only thing that matters is the postmark, not when it arrives."
- Why FedEx: The main purpose of FedEx service (which is mandatory!) is to insure delivery of the order; Tickets-by-Mail cannot replace tickets that are lost or displaced in US Mail.
- What if I'm not home: Kaz <kazdeyna@aol.com> posted (8/12/98), "FedEx delivers to home addresses and not PO Boxes. Somebody has to sign for the FedEx, usually if you have a doorman or rental office which accepts packages they will leave it there, especially if the FedEx person is familiar with this practice and it has been done before in your building, rental complex, etc. If you are not there to
sign for it, FedEx will leave a note on your door with instructions on how to get your package, either by redelivery when you are at home to sign for it, or an address of a location (substation) where you can go and pick it up." Shelly posted (3/30/97) that, "They leave a tag on your door; you can either: (a) go to the station and pick up your package; (b) sign the tag and they will leave the package whether or not you're home; or (c) be there the next day to sign for it when they try to deliver it again. They will try to deliver 3 times. After that, the package is returned to the sender."
- Be patient: Shelly posted (5-24-96), "Please relax a little bit...we are mailing out orders as they are filled, but ... we've got a lot to do. No assumptions should be made ... regarding whether or not you'll get tickets if you haven't received them yet..." Keep in mind that they may be working with as many as 10,000 tickets each for as many as 20 shows (200,000 tickets, and possibly even more orders) -- and even more tickets (and orders) for some tours, particularly Halloween and New Year's.
- When filled Shelly posted (8/97): "For the record: Our allotment of tickets for each show is limited, so we may not be able to fill every order that we receive; we will make every effort to ship all return orders, filled or unfilled, before the tickets go on sale through regular outlets, BUT WE CANNOT GUARANTEE THIS."
- Why returned, not filled: Reasons for rejection include, but are not limited to, not following prescribe procedures, loss in a random drawing for tickets, double-postmarks (invalidating the one with the required date), and duplicate orders. If your order was not filled, then it is being returned by US Mail and all payment including the FedEx payment is being returned to you. Shelly posted (5/14/96), "we *cannot* guarantee that all orders from any given day will be filled. We have a finite number of tickets for each show. If we cannot fill your order, your payment will be returned to you, and you can take it (with your receipts) to the place where you purchased your money orders for a refund. ... If you did not include the SASE, it is a mistake. The order will be filled if there are tickets left after all correct orders are filled." Other common mistakes include sending the carbon copies of money orders (which you'll need if you don't get the tickets)."
- Why did he/she get them and I didn't: Shelly posted (6/7/96), "If it seems that someone with a later postmark got tickets to a show where you got rejected with an earlier postmark, there is one explanation. If the envelope with the later postmark arrived to us with the postmark so illegible that we could not decipher it, then we would give it the benefit of the doubt and consider it to be a first-day postmark; it's the only fair thing we can do, since people do not have control over the quality of the postmark stamped on their envelope by the postal service."
- No first day guarantee: Note further that ordering on the first day doesn't guarantee tickets, nor does ordering on the same day guarantee two people the same outcome, since as Shelly posted (c.11/97), that "would be impossible unless we received orders postmarked [for the first day] for EXACTLY the number of tickets that we have to sell - not 1 more or 1 fewer. I'd say that the odds against that would be stunningly high."
- Why was mine filled later than a later order Shelly posted (5/14/97), "if a first day postmark was opened and filled LATER than a second or third day postmark, it was due to a failure to follow something in the instructions that was evident prior to opening the envelope, such as: duplicate order; no return address; no shows listed on outside of envelope; delivered to us in wrong size envelope; - delivered to us in unacceptable manner (wrong address, return receipt, etc.). Generally, since they made the error in the first place, the person who submitted such an order is not aware of the reason why they lost the priority of their postmark date. If the order is filled in the end, then it does not necessarily include the helpful hints sheet indicating why the order wasn't filled."
- Advantaged orders: Shelly posted 11/97, "Envelopes, after being sorted by postmark dated, are processed in
random order, regardless of which nights are being requested. ... [Furthermore,] How many shows were ordered makes no difference." There is thus no advantage to ordering for certain shows, or for a certain show, or for every show, or only one show, or any particular combination of orders, as Shelly also posted (c.9/97): "Preference is definitely not given one way or the other. Each envelope is filled as completely as possible when it is randomly selected from all the other correct orders bearing the same postmark date." (Note that one difference in orders that could make a difference, besides postmark and being error-free, might be ordering 1 ticket instead of 2, since there be odd seats left at the end of a row, section, or show allotment.)
- Geographic advantage: Shelly posted (11/12/97) that for the fall 1997, "We waited until orders from all over the US and Canada arrived before we started filling any." This is reportedly now true for all tours since.
- Distributing Luck of the draw: Shelly's (11/12/97) post about one tour illustrates both fairness and creativity implemented in filling orders:"We know that we will sell out of New Year's Eve tickets with envelopes postmarked Nov. 4. Therefore, the first orders being filled for NYE are receiving the worst tickets for the 31st, medium seats for the 30th, and the best seats for the 29th. The last orders filled will get the best seats for the 31st. All of the orders receiving tickets for the 31st should be postmarked Nov. 4th, so in the end they all have the same chance of getting good seats (or any seats at all)."
- Taper Only/Preferred: Kaz <kazdeyna@aol.com> posted (8/12/98), "If you order taper tix you have to order taper tix for *all the shows* you are ordering. Taper preferred means you go into the regular seat lottery once the taper seats are sold out." Taper only means exactly that - you want only tapers' tickets and if there are no tapers' seats left for a show for which you ordered, you're money order for that show will be returned (not all of your money orders, since every show is a separate money order).
- Be satisfied: Kaz <kazdeyna@aol.com> posted (8/12/98), "You cannot ask for seat locations or preference, be happy that you are getting something without spending 6 hours on the phone or standing in line, that's how and why this works!" And as the note responding to a written request for specific seats read in part, "as the newsletter clearly states, we do not honor special
seating requests. Please DON'T ask -- 1. We may not even have the ticket section you want for mail order., 2. The section you want may not be in processing inventory yet for mail order., [and] 3. We don't have time to pass on order around to 20 different operators working day & evening shifts to try to find out either of the above."
- Seats available: Mail order (now) includes the full range of tickets available through other means (box office or Ticketmaster), including floor, rafters, and obstructed view.
- How many tickets: Exact numbers have not been publicly available regarding either how many orders are placed or how many tickets are available. Almost all orders were filled for the mail order portion of the spring and fall 95 tours, according to Shelly who emailed (4/18/95) that "out of 5000 total orders, we are only returning 4 for incorrectness - 1 person who sent cash, and 3 who sent personal checks [rather than money orders]". For 12/28/95 and 12/29/95, virtually all of the correct orders were filled; for 12/30/95 about 2/3 of correct orders were filled, and for 12/31/95 about half of correct orders were filled. Mail order has become much more competitive in recent years, particular for certain shows (e.g. 10-31-96).
- Canadian trouble: To note, there was a problem with the first mail-order regarding Doniac Schvices not showing up in Canada. For future reference, Shelly posted (4/7/95) "a special message to all Canadians on the Doniac Schvice mailing list. For reasons yet to be determined, the current newsletter has been delayed on all deliveries in Canada. Therefore, we have designed an alternative system for Canadians wishing to order tickets by mail. In order to participate in this system, you must meet two criteria: You must live in Canada; and You must be currently subscribed to the Doniac Schvice, at your Canadian address. [The system involved a separate number, and being able to receive a fax from Dionysian.} ... Sorry for the short notice; we are doing the best we can to compensate for the disappearance of the Canadian newsletters, an occurrence which is both unpredictable and inexplicable, as they were all mailed at the same time as the domestic ones."
- International orders: Kaz <kazdeyna@aol.com> posted (8/12/98), "With regards to International Mail orders, send them in first class or the corresponding class in your country. All Filled order comes back via International Registered mail, the fee is $7 for this, same as the US FedEx charge. All Unfilled orders come back via the international reply coupons. You must enclose an international reply coupon. International reply coupons work the same as US stamps, for those who live outside the US and can't get US stamps. However the conversion into US postage may not correspond exactly. You currently need only one reply coupon for your unfilled order to be returned
to you. If you live outside of the US (including Canada) using the reply coupon is your best bet."
- Problems, still A problem number is posted with each mail order, but may change so is not reproduced here. There is also an email address, which Shelly has called "usually the best method": tickets@phish.com
More information: See live recording for equipment notes. Please see beginners and live recording for notes about approaching tapers for tapes at shows. Also, please see see taping etiquette, beginners, blanks and postage, tape trade, head cleaning, and tape levels for taping etiquette.
Also, see this post from rmp:
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 04:13:58 GMT
From: KAZDEYNA
Subject: Mail Order Answers - Summer 2000 Tour
Mail Order Answers - version 1.7
Summer 2000 Tour
(Mar. '00)
Important Info: Post Mark Dates are March 20th, 21st, 22nd
Address: Phish Tickets-By-Mail
Summer Tour 2000
PO Box 64949
Burlington, VT 05406-4949
All info can be found at:
http://www.phish.com/tixbymail-s00.html
http://www.phish.com/orderform.html
Phish Hotline - 802.860.1111
Here is some info to help out those who are filling out their mail
orders for the first time. FOLLOW THE MAIL ORDER INSTRUCTIONS
PROVIDED BY WWW.PHISH.COM, or the Phish UPDATE or the PHISH
HOTLINE, this is just a guide. Many on this net have had good
experience with the mail order service, so to avoid "Shelly please
read this" questions or "MO Question" posts about the mail order,
we can all chip in and help out those (as I know many have been
helping already in personal e-mailings and posts to those with
questions) looking for a little guidance or just reconfirmation
that what they are doing is correct. I have nothing to do with
Phish Tickets-By-Mail, just a fan trying to provide some assistance
to the newsgroup. If this isn't official enough for you then stick
strictly to what is written at
http://www.phish.com/tixbymail-s00.html or in the Phish Update when
it arrives and you shouldn't have a problem. Remember you are
responsible for your own order.
Hope this info helps some:
1. The Tickets-By-Mail order form can BE FOUND ONLINE, and in the
Phish Update. The order form is available at
http://www.phish.com/orderform.html. It is OK to make photo copies
of the order form once you print it out. Make sure your order form
prints out on one page, you may have to adjust your print size on
your computer when printing. Also make sure to print out the
correct order form for the Summer 2000 tour. You can't *order*
tickets by any other way except with the order form and through the
mail. No e-mail ordering is available. You can use the mail order
form found in the Phish Update. It is Ok to just cut out the order
form, no need to send the whole page from the Phish Update on which
the order form is on. It is also OK to photocopy the Phish Update
order form. Fill out the order form by circling the type of ticket
desired (regular, taper only, or taper preferred) and then the
price for the no. of tix desired for each show that you wish to
attend, plus write in all other information requested. This is
ONLY mail order for the Summer 2000 tour, the Radio City Hall and
Japan Dates are not available through mail order.
2. FedEx is mandatory, it cost $7 for orders within the United
States, $13 for all other countries (including Canada). You will
need a separate $7 or $13 money order for this fee, this money
order (and all money orders) should be made payable to PHISH.
3. FedEx delivers to home addresses and not PO boxes. Somebody has
to sign for the FedEx, usually if you have a doorman or rental
office which accepts packages they will leave it there, especially
if the FedEx person is familiar with this practice and it has been
done before in your building, rental complex, etc... However, if
this is not the case and if you are not there to sign for it, FedEx
will leave a note on your door with instructions on how to get your
package, either by redelivery when you are at home to sign for it,
or an address of a location (substation) where you can go and pick
it up. They give you about three days to pick up your package
before it is sent back (returned to sender).
4. If you order taper tix you have to order taper tix for *all the
shows* you are ordering. Taper preferred means you go into the
regular seat lottery once the taper seats are sold out. *Note:
There is a two ticket maximum for tapers tickets. Taper orders for
3 or 4 tickets per show will be returned unfilled.* Check the
website for more taping information. Most importantly only order
taper tickets if you intend to tape.
5. Only one order form per person (name) per order. YOU MUST FILL
OUT YOUR OWN ORDER FORM. You can order all or some of the summer
shows with one order form. You have to fill out your own order
form, any duplicate orders will be rejected. It is perfectly
acceptable to have multiple orders coming from the same address
(i.e. roommates, spouses), as long as there are different names on
the order for that address, and *each order is filled out by the
individual*. All orders *must include a phone number including
area code and a street address*.
6. Use Postal or Western Union or Traveler's Express Money Orders
only, payable in US dollars. A separate money order is used for
each show. Plus one more for your FedEx fee. Example: You want to
go to both nights of Holmdel 6/28-29, one night of Camden 7/4, and
Toronto 7/6, that's four money orders, one for each show. Plus one
more money order for your $7 or $13 FedEx fee, don't forget.
Therefore five money orders total. Make all money orders payable to
Phish (including the FedEx fee money order, which is also made
payable to Phish), and put the show's name and date you are
ordering for on each money order. You don't have to put the Phish
Tickets-By-Mail address on the money order, just payable to Phish
is fine, but you do have to put your name and address on the money
order in the "from" portion of the money order, in case you will
need to have the money order refunded. *Make sure to have the
ticket prices correspond correctly to your money order.* Do not
send the carbons in with your order, just the first page (sheet) of
the money order is fine. The new postal money orders have no
carbons, yippee! There is a top Customer's Receipt portion to the
money order, tear that off and keep it! You will need it to get
your money refunded if your mail order is returned unfilled.
7. Include a SASE (self-addressed stamped envelope) #10 legal
envelope (9.5"x4") in your order, so if your order is not filled,
they can mail you back your money orders. $0.33 stamp on the
envelope is enough. It is ok to fold this envelope so it fits into
your sending envelope.
8. Use a #10 legal envelope (9.5" x4") to send in your order form,
SASE, and money orders. Return address goes in the front upper
left of the envelope, and the *date of every show you are ordering
in the front lower left*, also on the front lower left of the
envelope write "Taper" if you want tapers' tickets.
9. Once Again, *FedEx or International Registered Mail delivery to
have your tickets returned is MANDATORY*. Therefore in your order
form you must provide a telephone number with area code. If not
order will be rejected. One $7 (United States) or $13 (all other
countries) money order, payable to Phish for your FedEx or
International Registered Mail delivery payment.
10. With regard to International Mail orders, send them in first
class or the corresponding class in your country. All Unfilled
orders come back via the international reply coupons. You must
enclose an international reply coupon or $0.64 in US postage.
International reply coupons work the same as US stamps, for those
who live outside the US and can't get US stamps. However the
conversion into US postage may not correspond exactly. You
currently need only one reply coupon for your unfilled order to be
returned to you. If you live outside of the US (including Canada)
using the reply coupon is your best bet, especially if you can't
get US stamps.
11. You cannot ask for seat locations or preference, be happy that
you are getting something without spending 6 hours on the phone or
standing in line, that's how and why this works! If you cannot
handle possibly getting undesirable seats or will be greatly
disappointed if you don't get the best seat in the house then maybe
this system isn't for you.
12. Send your orders in by regular mail, do not send them in by
anything other than regular mail (regular mail, that's First
Class). Express mail, Priority mail, FedEx, registered mail,
certified mail, return receipt, will not be accepted. If you try to
send your money order in any other way except regular mail it will
be rejected. Very few post offices, if any, still have/use AM and
PM postmarks, the correct postmark date not time is used to process
orders at Tickets-By-Mail. When *sending* the order to Phish
Tickets-By-Mail a meter strip from the post office is fine, however
your SASE return envelope must have a stamp on it, not a meter
strip.
13. You have your money order receipts!! Keep your money order
receipts. This is the only way you will get your money refunded if
the money orders are lost, stolen, or your order isn't filled. The
money orders will be returned (in the SASE you included) if your
order isn't filled.
14. The postmark mail in dates are March 20th, 21st, 22nd. You
want to have a good chance getting tickets then you should send
your order in on the first postmark day.
15. Do not be alarmed if the postal clerk asks you to pay for a
postmark, that is the current US postal procedure. For letters
they charge $0.55 for this service. However most clerks do not
strictly adhere to this rule, and will individually postmark your
letter if you ask them, but you may get one who decides to follow
the rules. Eitherway, the letter will have a postmark on it when
you mail it no matter if the clerk stamps it, or the processing
machine stamps it. It is not a big deal, it's basically for your
own piece of mind. I've received filled orders having postmarks
done both ways, window clerk, or just throwing the letters into the
mailbox.
16. The address is: Phish Tickets-By-Mail
Summer Tour 2000
PO Box 64949
Burlington, VT 05406-4949
17. A mail order e-mail address tickets@phish.com (best method)
will be available for any problems. Also a hotline number
(802-865-6959), both will be available after May 1st. Useless to
call until then. Please give at least ten days notice prior to the
show of a problem. DO NOT CALL ANY OTHER TELEPHONE NUMBERS
regarding ticket problems.
18. Tickets will be shipped from March 23rd through April, don't
panic if you do not get your tickets on the first day, you'll have
plenty of warning before the on sale dates whether you will receive
tickets. Make sure the address and telephone number you provide is
where you will be during this time frame. Phish Tickets-By-Mail
DOES NOT GUARANTEE tickets will be mailed to you prior to the
onsale date. However, they make every effort possible and you will
always be updated on the status of the ticket turnaround by the
nice people at Phish Tickets-By-Mail via the Usenet newsgroup
[rec.music.phish], and http://www.phish.com, they have provided
updates in the past. And you can always call the Tickets-By-Mail
help line.
19. Once you receive your tickets they cannot be replaced if you
lose them or destroy them.
20. Finally if you have any other questions regarding mail order
check the Phish.Net FAQ site.
http://www.phish.net/PhishFAQ/mailorder.html It contains many of
Shelly's answers to mail order questions which have been posted to
the rec.music.phish newsgroup over the years.
It is very helpful if you have questions about how Phish
Tickets-By-Mail goes about distributing tickets and their ticket
processing operations. And recently has been updated with comments
from these postings :)
Good Luck, feel free to ask any questions.
Remember this isn't the only way to get tickets, just a
fan-friendly service to make getting tickets easier, all general
public on sale dates are listed in the Phish Update and on the
www.phish.com. Therefore what you end up getting with regard to
seating is simply what you get. There may be a price to pay for
convenience. If you can't take sending in money or buying tickets
without knowing where your seat is, then mail ordering may not be
for you.
Last but not least, much thanks goes out to all who have
contributed and e-mailed me back information regarding the mail
order system. Further inquiries/information are always encouraged,
so if you see anything that you think should be added let me know.
Thanks to Dan this post is also now at
http://www.phish.net/tour/mo-answers.html, however it many not be
updated for this current tour.
Remember you are responsible for your own order form, follow the
instructions at www.phish.com or the Phish update carefully and you
should be ok!
Peace,
Kaz
Kazdeyna@aol.com
©1997-2000 Wrzeszczynski
Thanks to Shelly, Andrew Cogan <acogan@sympatico.ca>, Jim Raras <james.raras@stud.umist.ac.uk>, and others.
"Money is like a sixth sense without which you cannot make use of the other five.""
-- W. Somerset Maugham"
An all-volunteer project of the