@raidcehlalred said:

I did; well, at least I thought I did. Then I tried to cut the more succint points and just butchered the thing - sorry. It wasn't some 'covert' shot. I read all your stuff. In fact, if it wasn't for your recent bit comparing the recent DWD to the Went Gin (man do I get tired of those comparisons; I wouldn't have gone back - I've got DWD malaise). Off-topic, but I wasn't taken aback at first. Tired, I suppose. But it's all I've been listening too, lately.

At the end of the recording posted here - one of the reasons I look to your reviews is to see what I should buy - I do here Tweezer-prise. I honestly do.... Maybe it's the power of suggestion, but really up through Trey's decision to shred, I simply totally hear it from Page, and those bass notes from Mike.... But whatever. I could totally be wrong. Point is, you're right, it's not a song; it's the culmination of a song I considered Tweezer in the moment, and more so, after repeated listens.

Okay, droll: Agreed. You must admit that you write with confidence and verve; I just thought it weak, coming from you. It seemed more like fan-boy stuff than analysis.

Let me get to one point you raise, first. The Live Phish series is different from .com, correct? So it's kind of, regarding LP vs .com, apples and oranges, as those shows are, amazingly, available all but day of?

I'm totally new here. So your third point, particularly the parenthetical: I don't get it.

That said (or even without that said) regarding the '14 and '15 shows - that is a clever point. And perhaps you are right.

I did note that I'd be happy to read discussions regarding other song listings; I wasn't trying to bog down this site (despite how it probably seems).

Re: the Caspian jam actually being a Tweezer jam - by that logic, when they go into Slave to the Traffic Light in the 12/9/94 Tweezer (and that is roughly *ten thousand times* more clearly Slave than the jam in the 8/22/15 Caspian is Tweezer), it should really be marked as Tweezer -> Slave to the Traffic Light -> Jam. That ain't how this works. It might *sound* like a jam that comes out of a Tweezer, but it isn't.

First, one mistake, if that's what you're pointing out, doesn't justify another. Second, if you're pointing out a different running order, this sequence should look:

Tweezer> Caspian-> Tweezer-> Jam.

But again, I don't hear enough 'jam,' to warrant the designation. Jumping someone who wants to play off the word 'jam' with honey, or some other sweet food, I get it....

What I do hear is a clear reentry into Tweezer, some cool 'hose' ala Bing 95 (but FAR less so, I should note), with Page's chording (and the band's collective playing throughout - it wouldn't make fore a great standalone song) and such bringing to mind a familiar sound/structure.

I have some time now, but not that much. So I've called to mind shows I was at, and maybe haven't listened to in a while, like Ventura 97, with a different sandwich. And what I noticed is that ideas created in the Bowie emerge out of the Cities (and of course the Bowie too).

Or even Jones Beach 95 with a real DEG that you could hear.... The Tweezer that 'returns' isn't so much Tweezer as the ideas created in what "Y"ou call hose or whatnot.

(I still wish that copy sounded a bit better....)

That (the idea/or theme) even more than the Tweezer riff (which I did hear) is what informs my position.

And I do go into this sort of stuff looking to have my mind changed.

But take care. I hope there's new show material for you to analyze before Mexico.

That's fair enough. Apologies if I offended you in any way. Believe me, man, when I first heard it I thought it was Tweezer -> Caspian -> Tweezer too. If I still shared your opinion, I would be trumpeting it from the mountaintops. I'm already big enough on it being Tweezer -> Caspian instead of Tweezer > Caspian.

I smiled a bit at the "fan-boy stuff" line. I approach this music as a fan, first and foremost. Get me into a discussion about scales and IV-I and I'm totally lost.

W/R/T the setlist stuff - there's a team of folks that volunteer with .net responsible for curating the setlists. They put in the segues and determine if something is a tease or a jam and so on. They're also *decidedly* conservative in marking jams or segues. That has been complained about many times. Haha, wait a few months and something else like this will happen.

Yes, the LivePhish site is different from .net, but the people there (from what I understand) are just as big fanatics as everyone on here. They're a pretty good metric for how the setlists tend to go.

The Jones Beach '95 Tweezer is on a Live Bait in pristine SBD, so you should seek it out if you don't have it yet.

Sorry, I wasn't sure what songs you were comparing. Tweezer and Caspian? I'll take your word that they're in the same key; they sound pretty different in terms of tempo to me.

I'm more than willing to have my mind changed. My mind has changed on this band a lot.